Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Slides go Digital Down Under

my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

»	Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE » Operations » Digital Cinema Forum » Slides go Digital Down Under

Author

Topic: Slides go Digital Down Under

Stephen Jones
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Geelong Victoria Australia
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-02-2001 06:37 AM

Slide Advertiseing company here in Australia have started to put adertisements on to CD rom ,Which is projected onto the screen useing a Panasonic Digital projector Model 797 pxel.The first plex to use this format is the new GUO 12 plex at Burwood in Sydney.All 12 screens have been fitted with this new system.The image is claimed to be far supperior than slides which is understandable.I wonder if the advertising company will pay for the change over cost which I'm not sure of how much it will be.
As we use the same advertiseing contractor I will ask the rep what the cost is.The plus side to this format is the sharper image and not haveing to change slides in the carousel which is time consuming.

Stephen

------------------

Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Olympia, Wash. USA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 03-02-2001 09:22 AM

And I'll bet that a single video projector cost ALOT more than dozens of new slide projectors!

Michael Barry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 584
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-02-2001 10:55 AM

I have been to the Burwood complex that Stephen is referring to! In fact, I live about 5-10 minutes drive away.

It's an intriguing concept, to be sure - the client can have animations rather than just a static image. For example, an ad for a car dealership had the car drive off at the end of the ad.

As far as quality is concerned, I strongly felt that the resolution was far lower than film slides and that the image looked very pixelated. Also, the colors took on an artificial look. All in all, it didn't even begin to approach the fine gradations, color quality and sharpness of real slides. The whole thing basically felt and looked 'cheap' rather than high-tech.

It's good that new things are being tried but I was quite disappointed - although not really surprised - to see the results.

The other thing about it is that it's not really a step towards getting people out of their house, which is the agenda that the theatrical exhibition industry ought to really be considering in the age of DVD and home theatre.

Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-02-2001 01:29 PM

What type of video projector is it? CRT? LCD? DLP?

I agree with Ken that this probably is a terrible waste of money. A good-quality slide projetor (not xenon) can be had for about $500, and it uses slides that cost about $.50 apiece to duplicate. The standard EXR bulbs cost about $12 apiece and last upwards of 35 hours. Brighter EXW bulbs cost about the same, but the lifetime is about half. Compare that with the LCD and DLP data projectors which take bulbs which, alone, cost $200-500. This also introduces some reliability problems, since theatres can afford to keep a spare slide projector around, but I doubt they'd have a separate computer and data projector just sitting in the back room. It would be interesting to compare the service life and maintenance costs of the electronic system versus slide projectors.

I also agree that there is no reason for slides to have poor quality. What usually happens is that theatres (or the slide companies) are cheap and only buy the cheesy long-life FHS bulbs which are substantially dimmer than the EXR and EXW bulbs. I'm not going to argue that smallish or medium-size theatres need xenon slide projectors, but they can at least get brighter bulbs and faster lenses. The other issue with slides is that they really should be in glass mounts, rather than open-frame cardboard or plastic mounts. The heat from the lamp will deform the film and cause focus problems unless flat-field lenses and glass "sandwich" mounts are used...

Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-02-2001 02:01 PM

Scott, glass mounts are a PITA, expensive, and have their own set of problems. The standard cheap flat glass sandwiches are worthless. (IRRC, even Kodak made some of these.)

Proper mounting _must_ be with anti-newton ring glass, and preferably registered. I used Wess slide mounts professionally for years. There is another company (GEPE?) that makes decent mounts. Personally, I loved the Wess mounts, but they only fit in 80 slide trays.

The short life span bulbs in slide projectors used to get my goat. Has anyone made a retrofit micro xenon or halide bulb that will last longer? I see cars driving around now with headlights that beat most slide projector lamps.

*News flash* Richard Fowler just emailed me that Telex has developed an Hmi slide projector which will be in
his booth at ShoWest.....1710/12. If you are going to the show, would you please check this out and email me your comments? I've become tired of going to the shows and no longer make a point of attending.

Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-02-2001 02:08 PM

Jerry -- I've only used the GEPE mounts, which were great. I've not seen anything cheaper, acutally. The anti-newton ones are something like $9 for a box of 50, which is pretty reasonable, and they can be reused easily. There may be others that are cheaper and of poor quality, but I'm not familiar with them.

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-07-2001 12:05 PM

One mistake many theatres make with slide projectors is to trying to fill the screen with a tungsten-halogen lamp projector designed for home or conference room use --- there just isn't enough light for even a 15 x 22 foot image. If you can't afford a projector that uses a xenon or metal arc lamp, opt for a smaller (but brighter) image by using a longer focal length lens. Avoid using zoom lenses, which are usually less efficient (less light on the screen) than a good prime lens.

Although glass mounted slides hold the film flat (you should use a lens designed for the flat field, and not the curved field lens used for regular slides), the glass can trap moisture in the slide which is vaporized by the heat of high powered lamps, causing visible "amoebas" of moisture in the projected image. Also, most "curved field" slide projector lenses are designed for slides that have the emulsion towards the lens. If the slides have a non-standard base-to-lens orientation, they will not focus well, especially at high power.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Tom Kroening
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 214
From: Janesville, WI USA
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 03-09-2001 03:53 AM

A few months ago i thought it would be cool to have a LCD projector instead of slide projectors in the theatres. No more jammed slides! YAHOO. But what i think would be even cooler is to have the sunday afternoon game on between shows. Saturday morning cartoons for the kid shows? News? Why not?

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-09-2001 07:04 AM

The video projectors are pricey --- a 1000 lumen unit will cost you a few thousand dollars, but only have enough light to illuminate a 7x10 foot screen with 16 footlamberts.
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/digital/av/digitalProjectors/index.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/digital/genInfo/dp2900.shtml

Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-09-2001 07:40 AM

"But what i think would be even cooler is to have the sunday afternoon game on between shows. Saturday morning cartoons for the kid shows? News? Why not?"

You've never met the goons that enforce copyright, have you? Fifteen stone or more of ugliness in a suit. Talk with a bar or pub owner sometime about what they have to pay to show the games.

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

Printer-friendly view of this topic

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.