Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Sony 4K on the cheap

my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

»	Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE » Operations » Digital Cinema Forum » Sony 4K on the cheap

Author

Topic: Sony 4K on the cheap

Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 02-11-2009 02:19 AM

http://celluloidjunkie.com/2009/02/10/sony-selling-b-stock-projectors-at-50-off/

The article talks about Sony's b-stock of 4K projectors being available for about half off. As a result, a top of the line sony 4K with optional DVI module input can be had for under $51,000. And their smaller simple 4K DCI model for under $34,000

Comes to show the margin some of these machines have ...

Sonys have made some inroads in Singapore and, closer to home, in Norway.

Still, their Lcos technology is not all that it should be and their manufacturing problems well known, so buy at your own risk.

The resolution is there, though. No doubts about it. They can do 3D with a dual lens adaptor kit thing Sony is supposed to start selling next month.

They are not compatible with any other current 3D system, though, and their system would need a silver screen (like RealD or Master Image) and can use inexpensive polarized glasses like them too. Light loss should be about the same as those systems as well, perhaps better. But it will benefit from no 144hz flickering whatsoever, which all other single projectior systems (RealD, Dolby, Master Image, XpanD) have.

[ 02-11-2009, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Julio Roberto ]

| IP: Logged

Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 02-11-2009 10:54 AM

Sorry for posting a "reply" to myself, but this was sort of a separate thread that I then thought could just as well integrate into this not-very-popular thread [Wink]

Hope it's ok.

http://www.sonyinsider.com/2008/10/04/sony-4k-projectors-will-be-able-to-use-a-3d-adapter/

quote:
Sony Electronics is demonstrating its latest digital cinema technology innovation: a single-projector 3D adaptor designed to work specifically with its 4K projectors in movie theaters.

The new adaptor uses the full height of Sony’s 4K imaging device, with the ability to display full 2K images for the left and right eye simultaneously and in parallel, from top and bottom.

The new lens units, models LKRL-A002 (X1.1 -1.9) and LKRL-A003 (X1.9 - 3.3), consists of an optical and mechanical assembly for each left and right eye image. It is designed to meet DCI specifications for 3D digital projection, while overcoming the bandwidth and resolution limitations of currently available 3D systems.

“With the addition of the 3D adaptor to our digital cinema product line-up, Sony can now offer the best of all worlds to exhibition: stunning 4K imagery from 4K movies, and incredible 3D with no triple-flash artifacts,” said Gary Johns, vice president of Sony Electronics’ Digital Cinema Systems Division.

When used with Sony’s integrated media block (LMT-200), the SRX-R220 4K projector is able to achieve 4:4:4 RGB signal path from media block, while avoiding the “triple-flash” artifacting of current 3D solutions. It can also deliver a 60P 3D display that is especially effective for sports or other fast-moving content in 3D.

The system was developed to give exhibitors the flexibility to switch between showing 4K and 3D content. The 3D adaptor attaches onto the lens mount of the projector and is compatible with all Sony 4K projectors currently in the field. It can be easily removed or re-attached within minutes.

The adaptor is designed to work with a maximum screen size of 55 feet (4.5 ftL brightness on 2.3 gain silver screen).

The 3D adaptor is expected to be available in March 2009.

Theoretically, since the light from the projector is coming out already polarized, the light loss for a polarization system could be miniscule, so perhaps Sony is able to pull a light level from their 3D solution that is only about 40% of the 2D level, instead of the aprox. under 14% of other systems. That could mean, if they were able to pull it off, that a single projection Sony 3D solution would be:

-Full 2K resolution, as oppossed to reduced one on older non-triple flash DLP models.
-No 144fps temporal artifacts of all the other systems except dual projection.
-Full 4:4:4 color resolution as oppossed to half that 4:2:2 in all other 3D systems (currently, this limitation could be avoided with server hardware upgrades in dual projectors, but unavoidable in single projectors 3D systems).
-Full bit depth of 12 bits as oppossed to 10 bits for all other 3D systems (4 times the number of colors, also a limitation that could dissapear in the future with server hardware upgrades for dual-projection systems).
-Subject to actual verification: The possibility of a light efficiency almost triple of that of the other 3D systems (due to the light being already pre-polarized even in 2D). No high watts lamps should be needed and a 2.4 gain screen should result in about the same 3D light level as a 2D show on a matte screen with the same lamp. For those sitting in the "good spot" of the silver screen, of course.
-Perhaps no "corrections" needed (i.e. Ghostbusting or Dolby color correction), but it will probably benefit from ghostbusting as circular polarizing systems are not that hot in the crosstalk department.
-Cheap glasses

On the minus side:
-Who knows how much that lens thing costs. Cheap ain't gonna be.
-Silver screen required.

All this in theory. We won't know 100% for sure until the thing comes out and its performance and specs checked.

Sony's Lcos technology has 2 serious shortcomings compared to DLP from my personal point of view. DISCLAIMER: don't take this as hard evidence, it's only my opinion.

1) Sony's SRXD It can't support really big light levels, so not suitable for very large screens.
2) Its life span is probably 1/5 that of DLP. That is, I would be suprised is a high-power Sony projector retained its contrast level within specs for more than 5-8 years, while the DLP will be happily be hoping along without any noticeable degradation whatsoever.

I wonder if a Barco 4K is coming this way ...

http://www.barco.com/Presentation/en/products/product_specs.asp?element=4068

[I'll answer myself: no, I do not believe it is. Basically rebadged JVC stuff, btw. Barco and JVC are more honest and know they can not do this thing right at 6kw xenon light levels]

[ 02-11-2009, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: Julio Roberto ]

| IP: Logged

Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 02-11-2009 04:45 PM

Also, the nature of the Sony SXRD system makes the image look a little too like video, to my eyes.

It's extremely good, but I think DLP ofers the more "film-like" image.

| IP: Logged

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-11-2009 05:09 PM

quote: Brian Guckian
Also, the nature of the Sony SXRD system makes the image look a little too like video, to my eyes.

That look may relate more towards the fact that the color system is still just 10 bit. Add the extra 2 bits that 2K affords and you actually have a much better looking image and a much wider color gamut available. When 2K had 10 bit color it did not have much of a film look IMHO.

Still Sony's main problem is Sony themselves. Four things have to happen before it can ever go anywhere or become a viable format...

First: They have to license the technology to other projector manufacturers for a reasonable fee. Sony also needs to let someone in this indusrty run the D-Cinema Division AND they need to do an about face... they are so full of themselves its pathetic!

Second: They need to sell them via a normal Cinema dealer network just like Christie, BARCO and NEC have done. Many theater owners won't allow anyone but their normal service tech in the booth! Hence the need to be able to get the product and support through normal dealer channels.

Third: They need to get the light levels WAY WAY up to even make the product viable. And the product has to be able to utilize other manufacturers off the shelf xenon Lamps.

Four: It has to become economically competitive with 2K and there has to be a steady stream of 4K content to run on it... not just a once in a blue moon OFMG its a 4K file type of thing! I think I could count the 4K releases on less than both hands...

The funny thing about companies like Dolby and Christie is that they end up leasing the B stock gear instead of just giving it away. That alone shows the 2K system to be the more viable of the two.

As a side note there are so many 2-K 3-D systems that have been sold and are going in that Christie is running extra shifts at it's plant in Ontario just to try to keep up with the orders!!

Mark

| IP: Logged

Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 02-11-2009 07:53 PM

I basically agree with all your points, gentlemen. Perhaps the only point I could speculate more on is that I do believe 4K releases are "rare" today partly because nobody (except Columbia) wants to put out something that, basically, is going to help nobody but Sony.

I know you think Mark that 4K in the server, when downsized to 2K, looks better than 2K. I personally don't think this would be much of a difference there.

Hollywood is adquiring most of their films 4K nowadays, and will move up from 2K almost completely very soon. But knowing their films are going to be shown 2K, many just opt to finish them up in postpro at that rate. Way waste time and money if people are going to watch it 2K anyway.

Remember 4K DCI has the same bitrate limit as 2K DCI (250Mb/s), so it's more resolution but more compression. Except for the magic of JPEG compression, it's the same information for 2K as it is for 4K, so 4K shouldn't have an extreamly obvious advantage there, as the "information per second" is the same, although 4K could display twice the information of 2K if it was there in the signal. When displayed at 2K, I don't think 4K would look substantially better in these circunstances.

And, of course, 4K Lcos projectors such as Sony's SRXD are 12 bits as well.

| IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

Printer-friendly view of this topic

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.