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Topic: Regal to go 100% Sony 4K?

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 05-15-2009 07:48 PM

Hey just a rumor I heard, ya know? Maybe an announcement on Monday even but I dunno. I heard from a guy who heard from a guy, who knows? Maybe Regal will even advertise for Sony products at their theaters, who can say?

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 05-15-2009 08:47 PM

Corroborating That Rumor (celluloidjunkie.com)

quote:
Rumor Has It Sony Is Regal’s Choice For Digital
Posted by J. Sperling Reich | May 15, 2009 3:23 pm

Earlier today I heard a rumor that Regal Entertainment had chosen to install Sony’s 4K digital cinema technology circuit-wide. Even as I was confirming the rumor, news of the decision was spreading throughout the industry like wildfire. In fact, Digital Cinema Report sent an email out to its subscribers that stated:

Regal Cinemas has selected Sony 4K digital cinema technology for all of its theatres. Two sources confirmed the news today. Following on the heels of AMC’s decision to work with Sony this marks Sony’s second major success story in recent weeks.

If this news turns out to be true it could quite possibly make Sony the market leader in digital cinema projection. At least it would once all of the projectors were installed, which could take years. There is no word on a rollout schedule or when the first units will be installed.

One reason Regal may be going with Sony is that they can provide financing for any planned rollout. Both AMC Entertainment and Regal are part of Digital Cinema Implementation Partners’ integration efforts, though DCIP has yet to announce any success they have had in raising funds for their rollout. We’ll provide updates as details become available.

Adam: I saw that. [Wink]

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Demetris Thoupis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1240
From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-16-2009 01:32 AM

When all others will move to 4K, Sony will produce an 8K incompatible with anything system. The ironic part of all this is that Sony means "small" in Chinese! LOL Small my a.s

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 05-16-2009 04:01 AM

Think I'll stay with Christies and their 2k units.

More light, excellent quality and reliability and a well-known product for the buck.

Remember SDDS? Wow, they died in 2002 - a slow death.

And reading in the prior note from that link about AMC on being burned with SONY's digital department, AMC is going to give SONY another chance...with 4k installs [Eek!]

You think that AMC and Sony is gonna try to convince all of the the studios in making more 4k releases - even though those 4k units CAN reproduce 2k material.

Hope that SONY can prove itself to those two DCIP members of REG and AMC, for if they fail out, I hate to see what happens next.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-16-2009 05:04 AM

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Hope that SONY can prove itself to those two DCIP members of REG and AMC, for if they fail out, I hate to see what happens next.

Actually, I think that it might be rather entertaining to watch this potential trainwreck.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 05-16-2009 06:23 AM

Maybe its "free" to compensate for the sdds debacle. Louis

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Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 05-16-2009 06:48 AM

Well, perhaps TI should wake up and start offering some real competition.

Sony can manufacture and sell their projectors to those customers for less money while offering more resolution.

Since when having 1/4 the amount of pixels on the screen and a higher price is an advantage?

Christie/Barco/NEC may have an advantage in light level, but when it comes to 3D, Sony's effective light levels are about the same if not better. It's only in 2D that they can't compete brightness wise. Not to mention Sony's ability to do 60fps in 3D (i.e. for alternative content sports) and not having temporal disparities (flicker) like all other 3d systems.

So the Sony product is potentially better (in some important quality measures) while being cheaper (if you can strike a deal like the ones talking about). Pretending for a second that Sony's product work the way they should and the way they're spec'ed, they match or beat the competition in many quality measures like contrast, gamut, resolution, etc, etc.

About sustenability, don't think that Sony is going to have any more trouble than TI to maintain a Lcos factory, compared to a DMD one. On the contrary. If anything, I would also be more worried about DLP sustainability than Lcos panels. Sony may have lost $1 billion this year, but TI is also in the red with DLP.

The main problem is that Sony is a monopoly in 4K DCI. The only other producers of 4K (or 8K, like JVC or Evans&Sutherland) projectors either don't want to or can't (due to Intelectual Property licensing restrictions) enter the theatrical market.

Perhaps TI should wake up and either produce better products or lower their prices to reflect their resolution. Projectors with resolution similar to 2K can be had for much, much, much, much, much, much less than TI's licencees are giving. The only reason they are not there, is that TI doesn't want them to be in order to shield their protéges.

Not blaming Christie/Barco/NEC though, as they had to pony up $20million to license the exclusivity from TI to manufacture the goods and now have to pay it back.

I don't know how they were thinking that the exhibition movie industry was going to support their "way of life".

I think this market needs another player. Let's see if somebody has the technology and the cojones.

I seriously don't know. Right now, I don't like ANY of the options in the market and I have to choose one for year's end. I may have to pass. Hope the new TI projectors are indeed cheaper and not just a little because of the imaging board being made in one piece instead of three ...

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 05-16-2009 09:13 AM

Entertainment at its finest indeed. Didn't Sony lose a billion dollars last year?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-16-2009 09:35 AM

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Maybe its "free" to compensate for the sdds debacle. Louis

Probably not free but on the cheap for this equipment. Work out the math yourself... I came up with about 58 grand give or take per location! The total price announced divided by the number of sites. Now Sony is shooting themselves in the head again by quoting different prices to different chains. I know one chain that pays in the low 70's for their gear and then they quoted a 110 screen chain that we service which is larger than the chain getting them in the low 70s 83 grand per screen. Sony obviously has their marketing brain power shoved way up someone elses's ass in the sales division.

Mark

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Mike Olpin
Chop Chop!

Posts: 1852
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 05-16-2009 09:39 AM

The interesting thing to me is that imaging seems to be following Moore's Law, getting twice as good about every 2-3 years.
So in 2011, we'll have 16k projectors, making the 4k obsolete right? [Razz]

Dates are approximate according to my memory:
1.3k in 2000
2k in 2002
4k in 2006
8k in 2009

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_law

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-16-2009 09:54 AM

Since Sony makes a ton of $$$ from selling TV sets to consumers, I can see how it might make sense for them to take a loss on the equipment sale in return for the marketing benefit of being able to advertise that their equipment is used by the two major cinema chains in the US. Perhaps that is their motivation.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-16-2009 09:55 AM

First off...it costs about 1/3 as much to produce LCoS as it does DLP...that has been its trouble in its life. That is why single-chip DLPs have come about to compete with other imaging solutions.

TI CAN'T lower its costs...it already isn't profitable. If you compare DCinema projector prices to A/V projector prices...you'd see that DCinema projectors are CHEAP...a real savings over traditional A/V versions.

Sony stands to make more money than TI selling their projectors for similar money. As for monopoly...at the moment it really is a duopoly...it is just Sony and TI. However, in the server market...most have sailed with the DLP plan...for Sony, everyone has to get Sony's "Media Block." It is even more of a winner take all. Oh, and I hope you don't want a second lens from Sony for any reason...check out them prices! Fortunately, Ushio makes the lamps for the Sony machines. They are more expensive than the Ushio lamps for the Barco machines so Sony will be a more expensive machine to "keep" even if it is cheaper to buy due to some "deal."

But seriously...I can sell a DLP DCinema projector for LESS than say a Sanyo LCD projector of the same resolution and the DCinema projector will also have more light and be DCI compliant. The prices are really undervalued just to push this DCinema agenda.

Steve

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 05-16-2009 11:10 AM

Scott has it right. Sony has decided it's willing to take a loss on these systems in return for getting its name prominently associated with superior movie presentation with the goal of influencing moviegoers' choice of TV set. It's a rational gamble. How it plays out for exhibitors in the long run remains to be seen but surely Regal and AMC have negotiated long-term support guarantees from Sony.

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 05-16-2009 12:49 PM

I heard this same news from a reliable source yesterday. I bet Cinemark won't be too far behind.

In a way this is a good thing. Those three chains being 100% 4k in couple of years will drive 4k content to be available. 4k will become the industry standard instead of the consumer level 2k. I hope somebody other than Sony makes a 4k projector soon because when it's time to change over I don't want to have 2k while the competition has (and is able to market) 4k. Carmike must feel pretty stupid now for jumping to 100% 2k so fast.

BTW, with Sony's over/under 3D, are they using anamorphics and using 1/2 the chip for each eye or are they just using 1/4 the chip for each eye and wasting a lot of light?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-16-2009 01:25 PM

What what Carmike's cost per screen? $800 or so? They have had several years of use out of them too. What was stupid for all is the realization that there are no extra ticket sales associated with DCinema anything. One is spending money for zero return.

With technology though...whenever you jump in, it isn't going to be too long till the next generation comes out and you will eventually be left behind.

As for long-term deals with Sony...don't count on it...none of these guys has shown any long-term smarts.

Steve

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