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Author Topic: Dolby's New Server..DSS200, supersized racks required!! Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 07-11-2009 11:38 PM                     Working on a private screening room install right now. Had to add D-Cinema to the room, I was actually looking forward to installing the Dolby Show Player/Server..until I went to pick up the equipment. What used to be nicely done in two separate chassis, the newest version of the Dolby system is ONE 3RU high, 70(!) pound, unit that is 27 inches DEEP!! (Oh, and you need to add another 2-3 inches for cables to clear.) Sigh. A huge pain in the ass when the existing rack (which due to location cannot be replaced without a huge expenditure of time and labor) is only 17" deep. We are having to build custom rack ear extenders to limit the encroachment in the back and front of the rack. If the end result isn't too hacked, I'll get a pic to share here in this thread, if the mods don't mind. Be forewarned if anyone is planning on a installing a new Dolby Server you will either need a DEEP true server rack, or have a lot of room behind your existing rack and be prepared to lose the back door. I have also been told that Dell is building them for Dolby now....yikes. (Not sure how true that is though.) I can understand the economy in making the unit one chassis instead of two, BUT why rush it? They really needed to either make the unit taller instead of deeper or wait till the technology will allow a standard depth chassis. Were the older models that bad, or did Dolby just make a dumb design move here?  |  IP: Logged Adam Martin I'm not even gonna point out the irony. Posts: 3686 From: Dallas, TX Registered: Nov 2000 posted 07-12-2009 01:13 AM                     24+ inches deep is not uncommon for a server. We work with computers now ... get used to it!  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-12-2009 07:55 AM                     17" deep rack? That is shallow by any standards...20" was the shallowest I've ever worked with on floor standing racks. We moved to 25" for film based sound racks long ago. For video we quickly went to 27" and are now moving to 31" deep racks with wider sides. With video, one has to plan out the bulk of the cables themselves as well as their minimum turn radius (also...even Cat5/6 has to take gradual turns (and only have very lite binding, like with velcro) and this takes up space. I agree, in existing installations (upgrades), increasing the depth can be more of an adventure. Since we blow filtered air into our racks, we don't want to loose the rear doors. Remember too, Tony...many folks are putting the servers in the base of the projectors, which for most, is virtually hollow and upwards of 4-feet deep so a 27" deep server fits with plenty of room. Steve  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 07-12-2009 11:10 AM                       Isn't it silly that we are putting the Dolby servers in the projector base and then need to use 50 Ft. HD SDI cables to avoid some yet unsolved issue with Standing Waves or attenuation issue between the server and projector when we use appropriate length cable.  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 07-12-2009 11:57 AM                     We are? Can't say I've encountered that one Sam.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-12-2009 12:49 PM                     Honestly...we are not using 50' cables...the only way you are going to have a problem with shorter lines is if Dolby and/or the projector manufacturers are not complying with SMPTE 292...there is no minimum length. If there was, broadcast facilities would be failing all over the place. I've seen no valid reason for the 50-foot theory. Furthermore, one would have to define WHICH cable needs to be 50-feet. That is, all HDSDI tested cables have different attenuation cap. specs...we use Belden 1694A/1695A...I've seen some use 1505 too and it seemed to work just fine. Steve  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 07-12-2009 01:23 PM                     Steve, it is possible the rack is 20" deep, I'll have to measure it again when I go back tomorrow. It is the same room the QSC amps for sale are coming from. Adam, I'm old-school film and actually despise D-Cinema on many levels..thankfully I will be retired (or dead) before it's the only game in town. I am involved in this install as a favor to the client. Now I didn't have any hands-on with the old show player and server, but if I remember the spec sheets right it wasn't that much deeper than a CP-650 (Which fits quite nicely in our rack BTW.) EDIT: Per the spec sheets, the Player DSP100 is 17.7" deep, and the DSS100 is 23" deep. Dolby spec sheet I just think it is a sign of someone's lack of perception of reality that the vast majority of installs are very likely to use the existing standard audio racks which aren't deep enough to accommodate a 30" deep unit. Of course on a new install a 30" deep rack would be specified and not an issue..other than the extra expense. And I do find the 50' cable thing odd....I always thought that standing waves were an issue only with longer cables...  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 07-12-2009 05:19 PM                     Tony, on teh vast majorit of installs that I see/do, the server is carried in the racking space in the projector pedestal, in which one could comfortably accomodate the server, sound system, automation interface, 3D controller, scaler and a few homeless persons On one job we put the server in the sound rack, which was already big enough to hold it, one other place the server went in a stand alone rack as the sound rack didn't have enough height, never mind depth. In fact that booth will shortly have two servers in the dedicated server rack.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 07-12-2009 10:18 PM                     Pete, the vast majority of my clients are home screening rooms now. I haven't serviced a regular cinema in years. Normally, in the home screening rooms, we use smaller NEC or Christie projectors (the room I'm working on now is using NEC) and it is almost always on a video lift. So we don't have the pedestal base on the projector. (I'm not sure our Christies are D-Cinema capable anyways, and I so far haven't run into any Barcos or *gag* Sony.) Also most of the home screening room booths are tight on space to begin with. That is why this new server is gonna cause a lot of headaches in my neck of the woods.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 07-12-2009 10:32 PM                       The cable length issue is well known to Dolby techs and seems to involve Dolby/Barco installations to my own knowledge. I too was skeptical, but I had the problem and so did Jack Cashin. Mine involved a CP2000 with Canare 706 cables made by Lonny Jennings and Jack's was with custom cables and a DP100. Dolby's output level is said to be higher than some others servers, but who knows the real reason, I'm new here. Apparently things do go bump in the night in D-Cinema, this is just one of them. Mine showed up as a loss of picture and a black screen every so often. Tried everything else and finally changed out the cables and problem gone. BTW I've been selling nothing but 32 and 36 inch deep racks for some time now.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-13-2009 01:35 AM                     Hmmmm interesting on the cables. Having worked with SDI HDSDI for quite some time now...I've never encountered an issue. If Dolby's server is out of spec, that is the true problem...50-feet of cable is a band-aid approach and certainly a waste of copper. Certainly, they can put the effects of the longer cable into their output (capacitance and attenuation...about 2-3dB for 1.5GHz in that length). Could you imagine how much cable would be in a typical broadcast installation if everything needed a 50-foot cable? Oddly enough, on the Barco DP50 (1.3K machines) with the ACSAR 1, anything OVER 15-feet was risky! As to racks...I never much cared for 36" racks since one almost has to stand IN the rack to wire most things. On the upside...you can really use the rear half for things that don't have to show providing you leave yourself a way to get to the front stuff. Steve  |  IP: Logged Phil Ranucci Expert Film Handler Posts: 236 From: Carpinteria,CA, United States Registered: May 2006 posted 07-13-2009 03:22 AM                     While on the topic of racks, any RF problems with putting the server in the pedestal of a Barco DP2000?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-13-2009 07:58 AM                     quote: Tony Bandiera Jr I have also been told that Dell is building them for Dolby now....yikes. (Not sure how true that is though.) Actually that may be a very good thing for Dolby... they can lay off some more people! DTS had been doing the same with their server till the project was shut down and DTS was actually letting Dell do the on site service and repairs to the servers which was very convenient... but is todays Dolby actually this snmart??? quote: Steve Guttag As to racks...I never much cared for 36" racks since one almost has to stand IN the rack to wire most things. Steve... you need to eat less cheese so you can fit inside the rack... Apparently none of you are using true server racks where the sides lift off. No need to stand inside the rack to do the wiring... and you can also mount the server on rack slides for easy removal and servicing, you'll find things set up this way in any IT facility worth it's spit. The IT type racks are made by many companies including Mid-Atlantic and they are more expensive. I personally prefer to put the server in the projector base... Unfortunately the larger projectors don't generally have the amount of space one needs. quote: Sam D. Chavez Isn't it silly that we are putting the Dolby servers in the projector base and then need to use 50 Ft. HD SDI cables to avoid some yet unsolved issue with Standing Waves or attenuation issue between the server and projector when we use appropriate length cable. Sam is correct and this also affects some Christie models as well... no doubt actual units that heir Guttag has installed... CP-2000's and ZX's. With the Christies the funny thing is that the problem may not appear for quite some time or it may appear right away... go figure... The problem lies both in the projector interface board AND in some servers having higher output levels. This causes a level mis-match between the two and (according to Christie techs) sometimes overloads the input circuit on the projector interface board. Christie has available convenient but pricy in line high frequenncy (3-4ghz!) attenuators that sometimes solve the problem... Which can be anywhere from a predominately colored screen image to bright white with no image present or a flash of white at the first startup of the first show of the day. A reboot of the system usually clears the colored image the problem. Many times this goes un-noticed or unreported because it's no more than a flash. I've seen a number of locations still exhibit this problem even after the cables were made 50' long and or the attenuators installed. Also, check the SMPTE error count in the TI engine... you'll generally find alot of errors. If one or the other add ons don't fix the problem then the projector interface board has to be replaced. Christie has generated a service bulliten regarding this with part numbers for the attenuators. They will only replace the interface board as a last resport but the new board apparently does not have this problem. I still feel they are pushing the linits for HDSDI in D-Cinema and had they used Triax for the HDSDI lines the standing wave problem probably wouldn't exist plus you could locate the server up to two blocks away from the projector!! Triax connectors are a bit pricy but the BNC variety are not to out of line. Also, one would think that increasing the length of the cables would increase the chance for standing waves and ro internal reflections. It may also increase the mount if induced "digital jitter" present on these lines. BTW: This is why Dolby supplies 50 foot cables in the CAT 899! quote: Phil Ranucci While on the topic of racks, any RF problems with putting the server in the pedestal of a Barco DP2000? I put a Dolby system in the base of the DP-100 once and it worked just fine... wouldn't do it again though and the BARCO racks are non-standard european type... If you need extra goofy rack hardware call BARCO for it. Mark  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-13-2009 08:22 AM                        This is the first that I have heard of the 50-foot thing. Does it apply to HD video as well, or just D-cinema applications? At least with video, HD-SDI is very forgiving, and I've not seen it fail on short runs (under 20' or so), even with bargain-bin cable. (I have not yet had occasion to work with the current generation of D-cinema hardware, but I do deal with a fair amount of HD and SD video.)  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 07-13-2009 10:43 AM                       Mark brought up the TI error count and this was the evidence the solution worked as the count went way down to nothing after the cables were changed.  |  IP: Logged

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