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Topic: 50% dematerialized DCP in USA ?!?

Jacques Lerouge
Film Handler

Posts: 5
From: Britanny FRANCE
Registered: Dec 2009

posted 01-11-2010 02:14 PM

Hello,
I heard that, in US, 50% of the 5000 D-cinema get their copy by a dematerialized way ( satelite or DSL) instead of external hard drive
Is that true or nearly?

A question from a guy living in the old continent [Smile]

Cheers

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Mike Olpin
Chop Chop!

Posts: 1852
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-11-2010 07:32 PM

That seems really high to me. I've always received content on hard drives.

Perhaps they are talking about just the license keys?

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Jacques Lerouge
Film Handler

Posts: 5
From: Britanny FRANCE
Registered: Dec 2009

posted 01-12-2010 06:34 AM

That seems really high to me
Me too ! That's easy to transfer a KDM or a trailer with a DSL connection, but for a full DCP [Confused]

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Elise Brandt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 160
From: Kuusankoski, FIN/ Kouvola, Finland
Registered: Dec 2009

posted 01-12-2010 08:55 AM

What I was told is that in France in particular a very large part of copies were delivered by satellite or dsl connection, as they are trying to sell the same system to us here. Is it just the salesman talking or what does the situation there look like?

Sorry to change the subject from the original but I am curious.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-12-2010 09:26 AM

In the first attempt of big tv BOEING was attempting to provide the content via a satalite link up but that system is now gone to the best of my knowledge

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 01-12-2010 09:39 AM

Just a few months ago I would say that number was too high but as of now we are recieving almost all of our content via satellite. Technicolor, Cinedigm, and Microspace (not an actual distributor I think but provides third party service to the other distributors) all send us movies and trailers via satellite. Keys come via dsl. We still get the occasional trailer or movie via hard drive but the amount of content coming that way has fallen off sharply in the last few months.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002

posted 01-12-2010 09:48 AM

Nothing's new, is it?

quote:
Work did not stop, however. The fire-damaged equipment was covered by insurance, and the Baird Company went on to install experimental Intermediate Film transmission systems in military aircraft, along with developing large-screen TV, plus colour television transmissions from the South Tower, using the original 500W transmitter on 8.3 metres (37 MHz) and a small studio on the ground floor of the tower. There was also an experimental 200-watt 2-metre antenna and transmitter at the fourth floor level. This was used for 600-line transmissions (though generally nothing more than field strength tests) for an ingenious scheme. Gaumont-British intended to distribute their newsreels by 2m television to their theatres, and hoped to be allowed to break the BBC monopoly to run, essentially, the world's first all-news television service. Unfortunately for them, the war intervened.

Quite what they intended to do with these electronic newsreels when they were received at the theatres, is not clear. Television projection did exist at that time, but there was no video recording, at least not in a practical form, so they would either have to be shown live, or film-recorded at the theatre. Television projection in theatres had been demonstrated then, but the picture was small, even by the standards of the screens of the day; pictures that I've seen seem to show a picture about 2-3 m across, with the projector sitting on the stage in front of the small screen.

I believe that film-recording a transmitted signal in the theatre and then processing and projecting the film a few minutes later was done during the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II, in 1953, but the Gaumont-British newsreel proposal was long before that. It sounds from the quote above that they intended it to be more than just an experiment, but I doubt that it would have been very practical, given the technology of the day. An odd technical demonstration maybe, but not a regular service to lots of theatres.

The quote comes from this page:

web page

Several other ideas which were long ahead of their time.

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Jacques Lerouge
Film Handler

Posts: 5
From: Britanny FRANCE
Registered: Dec 2009

posted 01-12-2010 12:43 PM

quote: Elise Brandt
What I was told is that in France in particular a very large part of copies were delivered by satellite or dsl connection, as they are trying to sell the same system to us here. Is it just the salesman talking or what does the situation there look like?

Sorry to change the subject from the original but I am curious.

You heard "marketing", in France few of theatres are satellite equiped, i should say 1 or 2%, most of them equiped just for live events like the NY Opera.

No worries, i want to compare too [Wink]

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-12-2010 02:21 PM

Interesting since most mall leases up here specify that a tenant cannot have a satalite dish on the roof

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Elise Brandt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 160
From: Kuusankoski, FIN/ Kouvola, Finland
Registered: Dec 2009

posted 01-13-2010 08:25 AM

Jacques; that's exactly what I thought. They told it like it's going to happpen in a few years at most; that all content will be delivered via satellite or dsl, and only some theaters will get hard drives. They also said (and this is more believable but I'm not that sure it's accurate) that a large percentage of hard drives sent out to theaters (in France, that is) will either come back damaged or not at all. As much as two in five hard drives is supposedly lost in action. This can't be right..?

The system they were selling was of course expensive and hard to maintain, and requires the agreement of all parties, distributors and theaters alike. Distributors will of course go for the even cheaper action, theaters here would end up paying the bill. As usual...

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Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 01-13-2010 11:54 AM

With a NEW 250GB EXTERNAL hard drive *retailing* for about $50, including a 1/2/3/5 years manufacturing warranty, I'm surprised they are trying to recover the hard drives after being shipped.

I mean, how much is the shipping/handling/testing cost of individually recovering a drive? $10?

If, let's say, DeLuxe went to a hard drive manufacturer and said: look, I need 5000 hard drives a week to ship out new movies, but I don't care about 3 year warranty. I just need them to work for 5 weeks. No bells and whistles, no speed, no jumpers, no packaging, no manuals, just the drive inside an USB external enclosure that's tested to work as cheap as you can make them. What price can they get? $40 for sure, probably well below $30.

Then ship out the stuff as disposable and ask theaters to throw them away. Save the personnel in the replication facility that's receiving/testing them.

If they are worried about security etc, that's lame, because you can always make a 1:1 copy of the drive and return the original.

I foresee a side business by ushers, though. Sudden flood of 250GB USB external drives on ebay. [Big Grin]

How much is satellite delivery per-film compared to a (say) $30+$10 s&h one-way disposable hard drive? In volume, I guess satellite would be cheaper, but the cost to the theater is not "free", as receiving equipment is needed, as well as maintenance of such.

PS: a know a few movies might take more than 250GB, but that should be a minority, and the cost of 320GB is not much higher, and you can always ask for those drives back [Wink]

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Todd McCracken
Master Film Handler

Posts: 263
From: Northridge, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2008

posted 01-13-2010 12:19 PM

Disposable hard drives in the US will never happen due to environmental; concerns. Additionally your only figuring in the the hard drive cost, not the case or the CRU sleeve (dci spec) this brings the cost up to make it economically feasible to recover the drives. Not to mention the studio's freaking out about their content floating around loose. (a well founded concern)

Of course when SSD drives come down in price mechanical drives will be abandon.

As to the percentage of films in the US over satellite I haven't seen any hard numbers, but that is the way its heading.

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Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 01-13-2010 02:14 PM

quote: Todd McCracken
Additionally your only figuring in the the hard drive cost, not the case or the CRU sleeve

As said in my post, I was quoting prices for EXTERNAL (i.e. including an external case) USB drive, which are almost equivalent to a proper CRU enclosure and come in a retail case/box/packing. Not quite CRU, but you get the point. With 2.5" drives they can be USB pòwered or, if needed, you could send a power adapter "to keep as needed" and then the drives as disposable. Drives "only" retail for $30 already instead of $40 with the enclosure/USB interface that I quoted.

About studios worring about content floating around: sure, but it's already floating around if they claim to been shipped back only (say) half the drives anyway and anybody, at anytime, can make a 1:1 copy of the drive anyway. I'm sure they don't like the idea and will try to fight it, but makes as much sense as sending someone to a booth 3 weeks after the movie opens to "make sure the hard drive is erased".

"Proper" disposable hard drives may not happen due to the enviromental concerns and whatnot, but it's already "happening" is as much as half the drives sent are never recovered/reused. I'm just saying it may make sense not to even try to recover the other half from the $ point of view.

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Elise Brandt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 160
From: Kuusankoski, FIN/ Kouvola, Finland
Registered: Dec 2009

posted 01-14-2010 07:11 AM

Aren't the hard drives re-used? I simply always assumed they are, at least here where the volumes are not that big, hey they even ask for the memory sticks that hold trailers to be returned... admittedly I don't even know how film copies are treated outside Finland, it seems in the US it is possible, if not common, for a theater to own a copy or two. This is a real curiosity. If someone doesn't mind educating me on this I would love to know how the system works overseas or anywhere else.

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Todd McCracken
Master Film Handler

Posts: 263
From: Northridge, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2008

posted 01-14-2010 11:06 AM

In the US for DCP releases all prints must be returned to their distributor. Some are not and the chains are charged for the drives/print fee's.
And yes, the drives are re-used over and over again.
This is a big reason why the trend it to go to a non-physical print model for distribution.
I have never heard of a site "owning" a DCP as they cannot create keys for it, key distribution is controlled by the studio's.

Though in time I could see this happening for independent releases, perhaps on a long term lease type agreement. As you could issue a 4 of 5 year key (at least in theory) Though it would be tied to a specific player or group of players.

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