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Topic: Master Image 3D...anyone using it or seen it?

John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-24-2010 06:31 PM

If so, what are your thoughts?

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Brendan Penny
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 121
From: Bundoora, Australia
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 05-24-2010 08:52 PM

Have installed several units in oz. Yet to have a single issue. Customers are happy with it. Best compared to RealD 'standard' z-screen in terms of brightness.

Probably a bit more of an upfront cost compared to other 3D systems so it really depends on what works for your business.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-24-2010 09:11 PM

But no royalties or ongoing fees?

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Brendan Penny
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 121
From: Bundoora, Australia
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 05-24-2010 09:25 PM

correct! No licence fee. One off cost. Uses same cheap disposable glasses as Real D

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-24-2010 10:18 PM

So the glasses are exactly the same as Real D? Does anything else change at the projector end to make that possible?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-24-2010 10:22 PM

I have 4 used ones I'd make you a killer deal on. They have all the updates. If I didn't want to sell these four I'd tell you the real truth!!!

Mark

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-24-2010 10:57 PM

RealD uses an electrically switched liquid crystal (I assume) polarizer that changes the "angle" of "circular" polarization of the light beam. On the z-screen anyway. I don't know what's going on in the XL but the end effect is the same, alternating polarization synchronized with the projector so that left eye gets one polarization angle that on the glasses the left eye lens passes but the right eye lens blocks.
Master image skips the electrically switching polarizer and mounts two half circles of opposite polarizing material into a disk, then spins the disk with a motor synchronized with the projector.
The polarization principle is the same with realD or materImage and the glasses are interchangeable.
Master Image sells the package without restrictions as I understand it - cash sale, no continuing license fee, no site lock. I believe they want you to buy their glasses but I don't know how they enforce this.
Mark, what's the problem you've had?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-24-2010 11:39 PM

To put it mildly they are gunk suckers! Anything in the air in your booth will get sucked onto the wheel and coat the filters. This even happens at theaters that have the popper exhausted outside so I can't blame it on the popper. They work fine.... until they get a nice coating of gunk on the filters in which case the 3-D gradually disappears. It's efficiency is about the same as Real-D but if you are going to put up with a silver screen the Real-D Z screen is no maintainance at all. There are original Real-D Z-Screens in this area that are approaching 4 years old that still work perfectly.

With the Master Image unit you have to clean the filters off some times every day depending on the air quality in your area. You have to have a supply of clean micro fiber rags on hand to do this so you don't scratch the filters. Don't trust the booth mongers to do it right either!

Also... there are alot of mechanical aspects of the unit that leave alot to be desired, the screws holding the filter wheel to it's hub are one. I've also seen wobbly hubs so the unit vibrates. Also, have known of at least two filter wheels flying apart. If you stand back and really look at the unit it could probably be boot legged for under 2 grand. Not much there. Servo motor and hub for filter wheel, finicky sync board and a power supply.

Had they sealed up the filter wheel inside a drum containing say nitrogen and made it impermeable to outside air then they'd actually have an acceptable unit but still way over priced for what it consists of.

Dolby 3-D still represents the best "buyable no strings attached" 3-D system on the market. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to do the math on that.

Mark

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Brendan Penny
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 121
From: Bundoora, Australia
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 05-25-2010 01:58 AM

Oh Mark, you make me laugh... I have to call Flip Flop on this one too [Razz]

From the post '3D spinning disk'.

quote:
This week I installed the Master Image 3-D system along with a tech from Master Image. All went pretty well except that the DP-100 was a very early unit and it required a new card cage backplane. The Master Image needs the pulse from GPIO-1 to sync and the old backplane wasn't intended to output this pulse... pre 3-D days of 2K stuff! However, and for you people that preach the obsolescence of D-Cinema gear... BARCO graciously supplied the new backplane free of charge. Once the backplane was installed and the BARCO re-assembled (no small task), the Master Image synced right up and worked beautifully.

Build quality of the Master Image is very high and the spinning disk drive motor is direct drive and utilizes a brushless servo drive system of very high quality.

How does it compare to other 3-D systems??? I have to completely take back what I said in my post above... This is NOT EQUAL to other single projector 3-D systems... it is FAR SUPERIOR... Simply put, this is THE BEST single projector 3-D I have seen to date and also the brightest. We acheived 5.7 fl with just a 4kw cinema type lamp (not a short gap) running at about 80%. I know there are downsides to Silver Screens which this system does require but the upside of the super high quality 3-D easily makes for putting up with the silver suurface. We hung a new type Hurley "washable" silver screen at this location in preperation for this install late last year. This screen has been tested by Master Image's technical staff whom themselves are involved with testing every toher 3-D system out there for DCIP.. in short they are way overqualified to do this sort of testing. Their conclusion was very positive and even Coke spills on this screen won't damage it's surface.

So combine the new Hurley Washable Silver Surface with the Master Image 3-D system in front of a full frame triple flash projector and you'd have one killer 3-D system that easily knocks the socks off the rest of em. This one certainly does.

Sooo....it WAS the best 3D system you had seen! 'WAS' being the operative word I guess??

Anyway, no you don't have to clean the disc daily. Maybe once a week unless you have a real pig sty of a booth.

Also they have a new revision model that we just got a couple of weeks ago that is 30% smoother and quieter than the older models. Not that I thought the first version was a problem anyway.

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Had they sealed up the filter wheel inside a drum containing say nitrogen and made it impermeable to outside air then they'd actually have an acceptable unit but still way over priced for what it consists of.

LOL

Wow, in that earlier post you are even giving credit to Barco!

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-25-2010 04:54 AM

Give it a couple of weeks...Mark'll like them again.

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Damien Taylor
Master Film Handler

Posts: 493
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2007

posted 05-25-2010 04:57 AM

Yeah, the build quality is just alright, and the motor gets red hot in use. But we have yet to have a disc shatter and we've cleaned it once in 4 months. Not too bad for a machine you can buy and own. The replacement disc cost could be a hassle.

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Todd McCracken
Master Film Handler

Posts: 263
From: Northridge, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2008

posted 05-25-2010 11:11 AM

Have a unit in our lab. I like it allot, the movable feature is nice if used. As far as them getting dirty we just clean the wheel with a microfiber cloth once a month and its just fine. We have had it almost 18mo without a problem.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-25-2010 06:38 PM

Brendan,

I've installed close to a dozen units. I'll still say the 3-D is among the best of the polarized systems IF you want the hassles of a silver screen. Unfortunately the Hurley washable screen has not yet fulfilled it's promise on the claims Hurley makes for it. With the lower pricing on Dolby it simply makes far more sense. In tight auditoriumsthere are also no lost seats with Dolby as there are using a silver surface. Do the math on the costs if you can count!!! You'll find out I am right.

Anyone wanting Master Image I can save you 10 grand a unit...

Problematic they've been running in grind locations. Were they all Rosey my customer would be keeping his!!!

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 05-28-2010 11:47 AM

I used to clean my film projectors every day but I dont' have a bad opinion of them because of that!
I understand that it could be something to keep in mind when deciding which 3D system to install but I don't think it's a primary reason not to buy it.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-28-2010 03:51 PM

Marco,

It is the only 3-D unit that requires regular cleaning. Dolby is inside the projector's filtered air flow and Real-D doesn't spin so it does not pick up dirt and gunk from the air. If you have very clean air in your location it will probably not be a problem though.

Mark

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