my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » NEC 1600 C "too dark" complaints

Author Topic: NEC 1600 C "too dark" complaints Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 06-13-2010 11:42 AM                        We have 2 NEC 1600 C's that have been recently calibrated. However when we play certain tapes back we get complaints that they are too dark and that a lot of the detail is lost in certain scenes. However when we play other tapes of the same formats (HDCAM or DIGIBETA) that have a lot of dark scenes they look great and there is plenty of detail. My first thought is that it is just bad tapes that have not been properly color corrected or processed but it seems to be happening often with a lot of film festival tapes. We recently had a major cable network in to do a show off of the same tape format. The show had qa lot of very dark scened but we had no problem with losing any of the detail and they were extremely pleased with how it looked. I guess I am looking to see if anyone else has ever experienced this and to find out what gives? Is it really just a lot of poorly processed and color corrected tapes? Why would some tapes look to dark and have a loss of detail on dark scenes and others look fine with plenty of detail on dark scenes? Anyone have any ideas?  |  IP: Logged Mike Olpin Chop Chop! Posts: 1852 From: Dallas, TX Registered: Jan 2002 posted 06-13-2010 01:25 PM                     Tapes vary all over the place. Many tapes have a lead in with a slate and color bars. If your scaller has adjustable settings, you can use the bars to set up each tape.  |  IP: Logged Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 06-13-2010 02:09 PM                        Thats the problem were using an MM2000 as our scaler and everything was preset for each format by the installer. Also my bosses opinion on the subject is that we are a presentation house and not a post production house therefore it is not our responsibility to compensate for poor quality content.  |  IP: Logged Adrian Hauser Film Handler Posts: 44 From: Sydney Registered: Mar 2008 posted 06-14-2010 05:38 PM                        ONe thing to check when projecting tape based content is that your projector scaler software is set to scale the luminance content correctly. Tapes by nature should be made within a Legal Video range of 64-960 10 Bit Code Values. Often we have found that some setups on scaling boxes assume a legal range input in but scale the output to the projector as a Full Range of 0 - 1023 Code value. This by nature will crush the Blacks and loose detail in dark scenes. Make sure you go through all your setups to ensure scaling is transparent all the way through the video path. Just my thoughts, Adrian  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-14-2010 05:48 PM                     That is why NTSC is what it is "Never The Same Colour"  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-14-2010 06:28 PM                     ^ Amen.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 06-14-2010 06:52 PM                     I second the amen to Gordon's comment. I HATE dealing with video formats in general as THERE IS NO STANDARD!! (Color, Contrast, Luminance). Sean, your boss is 100% correct. You have gone above and beyond to provide quality, properly calibrated projection equipment. It will make great sources look outstanding and will make crap tapes look as they are, crap. I have absolutely no sympathy for people who provide garbage source material and expect it to look good on a large-format screen. As Mike said, if they provide Color Bars and greyscale slate at the start of the tape, I would be happy to adjust the projector to help ensure quality. But if they don't provide them, they suffer with what they get.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-14-2010 09:58 PM                     No bars and tone... it's anyone's guess!  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 06-15-2010 12:40 PM                     quote: Sean McKinnon we are a presentation house and not a post production house In the NYC / LA markets you have to be alittle of both. Tapes and content do vary. So you have to go the extra mile.  |  IP: Logged David E. Nedrow Master Film Handler Posts: 368 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Oct 2008 posted 06-15-2010 05:00 PM                        Sounds like a gamma problem with the tapes in question. If the person doing the color work -- on local productions, the editor usually handles it -- isn't familiar with the difference in gamma between different types of computer systems and broadcast, then you can end up with something that is "too dark", or "too light". I keep a GammaX dongle around for these situations. It's easy to use, has a single control, and generally does the job. Handles most video signals, but the only connector it has are RGBHV HD-15 D-Subs.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-15-2010 10:49 PM                     Just like 70mm prints tones and noise to match the title  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.