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Author Topic: Tivoli Lights Chase Pickett Expert Film Handler Posts: 142 From: Irving, Texas, USA Registered: Nov 2010 posted 12-21-2010 01:04 AM                     So In out larger auditorium, the silver screen is reflecting the tivoli lights on the stairs right in front of the screen causing there to be an orange glow on the bottom corners of the screen. I cannot describe how annoying this is, and would like to know if I have any options as far as either turning them off or down to get rid of this. I'm not sure if there will be a legal issue with this as they do illuminate stairs. If anyone has any info on this, It would be met with much appreciation.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 12-21-2010 01:11 AM                        Get rid of the silver screen. For serious. Only crappy, substandard 3D systems need 'em.  |  IP: Logged Chase Pickett Expert Film Handler Posts: 142 From: Irving, Texas, USA Registered: Nov 2010 posted 12-21-2010 01:36 AM                     Well then we need them... Although I'm liking the new 320 Sony we just received. I think Sony learned a thing or two. Now if we can just get rid of the 220 p.o.s  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 12-21-2010 01:59 AM                        Nobody is impressed by a silver screen. Change it out and get a different 3D system. Make it happen by next week.  |  IP: Logged Chase Pickett Expert Film Handler Posts: 142 From: Irving, Texas, USA Registered: Nov 2010 posted 12-21-2010 02:42 AM                     quote: Joe Redifer Make it happen by next week. I wish I had that kind of pull. I'm not saying anyone should be impressed, with how much light is wasted with the Sony+Real D lens, it is necessary. Honestly I will watch a movie in one of your 3D houses if you come check out a movie in house #4 up here at Flatirons. After all I need something to really compare it to.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 12-21-2010 03:12 AM                        We got rid of our 3D silver screen nearly 3 years ago. GM who was fired threw soda at it from what I heard. Not sure if that is true, but the screen definitely had soda stains and it was recent (at the time).  |  IP: Logged Jim Cassedy Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1661 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2006 posted 12-21-2010 09:31 AM                     I solved a similar problem a couple of years ago by inserting a large resistor in the offending Tivoli light string. The exact amount of resistance would depend on the exact size of your installation and if your T-lights are incancescent or LED. You'd need to do some ohms law calcualtions to figure it out. I can't advise you on the legal issue though. Different municipalaties often have very different regulations on this sort of thing. In my case, we weren't too concerned since the lights which were causing the problem simply marked an aisle and not a stairway, as you said yours did. Good luck with that!!  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-21-2010 11:42 AM                        Check with the fire marshall. Some (most?) states/cities have a minimum illumination standard for egress lighting. The theatre's liability insurance policy may have something to say about this as well. You might be able to get away with just unscrewing the bulbs in the front row(s), but I would be pretty reluctant to do this unless I knew that doing so would not violate code requirements. According to MA code, aisle lighting must be at least 1 footcandle, with the exception that it may be reduced as low as .2 footcandles during a screening if it can be automatically raised to 1 footcandle when the fire alarm is activated. Your locality may have similar rules.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-21-2010 07:43 PM                        quote: Chase Pickett I cannot describe how annoying this is You don't have too....I have been known to stomp on the damn things as I walk in and out of a theatre, hoping to smash a few just to make me feel better. Tivioli lighting may be cute, maybe even sexy and certainly they are easy to install, but as far as having the ability to control and direct illumination where your want it -- they are TOTAL CRAP. What makes it worse is that cinemas have pretty much bought into this idiotic style of isle lighting full tilt. They must be beaten into submission! Isle lights used to be built into the seat frames at the end of the isles, directed light only at the floor where it's needed and not at the screen. That made sense. And almost always, the floor under them where the light was directed was carpeted with very dark, light-absorbing carpet. Perfectly sensible. However, given how important it is to control ambient light so it does not hit the screen, having large numbers of LEDs or pea-size incandescent bulbs basically spewing light omnidirectionally and uncontrolled in a movie theatre is just plain ass-backwards stupid. What? because they are small, that somehow makes it OK to line up hundreds of them with unfettered, direct line-of-sight to the screen and a highly directional silver screen at that? Oh, wait...I forgot -- they are CHEAP to install; not to worry then....that makes it all just peachy-keen. Chase -- I suggest you find out what the EXACT local ordinance is regarding the MINIMUM requirement for safety lighting illumination in your theatre environment and then get out a handy light meter and make sure those lights are not a single candela above that requirement. If you find they are brighter, then regulate the little winky things anyway you can to bring them into line with the minimum requirement. I would bet that those strips were installed as-is, no measuring, no conforming to only what is needed and without regard to how much damn unnecessary light they will spill onto the screen. If they ARE brighter than necessary, install a dimmer control to bring them into submission. If that is not possible or you don't have the expertise or the theatre management won't spring to the cost of an electrician, then get yourself some Rosco Bulb Dip -- it is a liquid that is used to color bulbs. If the little winky lights are yellow, use a little brush and dab them with BLUE Bulb Dip. Experiment with how much you need to get them to be visible but tamed down enough that you neutralized the intensity hitting the screen.  |  IP: Logged Chase Pickett Expert Film Handler Posts: 142 From: Irving, Texas, USA Registered: Nov 2010 posted 12-21-2010 09:30 PM                     I spoke to the Fire Marshal's office earlier today, and was told some very interesting information. The Tivoli lights must remain on at all times, but they don't necessarily have to be on the corner of each step. They can be a maximum of 1 foot 6 inches above the stairs on either or both sides, and along the same wall that the corners of the steps touch. So I can put them along the wall following the stairs downward, having the lights face the ground. I will have to put them as low as possible while still illuminating the stair, so I have some research and measuring to do. The fire marshal did say that an inspection must be made as for our insurance. I'm sure the ambient light will not totally be done away with in this scenario, but I'm sure the lights not directly facing the screen will be a big improvement.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-22-2010 08:54 PM                        We put in Tivoli-type lights in 1982 as part of an overall auditorium remodel. We put them on a dimmer so the ambient light wasn't too bad, but it still existed even if the lights were set real low. But, we had a bad experience: This was when the tivoli lights were just starting to really gain in popularity but the technology was (to quote Jeff Caldwell) "not finished." They were incandescent bulbs, not LEDs, and were wired such that if one burned out, then six feet of them would go out. To make things worse, they were made in 18-foot sections and individual bulbs weren't replaceable, so if one bulb would burn out, we'd have to pull up and replace a whole section. Fortunately the lights came with a 5-year warranty. Unfortunately, we had at least one burnt-out section almost 100% of the time. After about two and a half years of ordering replacements, replacing them and spending $ to ship bad sections back, the manufacturer went out of business. Eventually we just turned the lights off. I don't think there are any local laws here with regard to light levels in movie theatres, but the light from the screen was enough to be able to see well. (Our balcony seats always had lights in the end standards so the tivolis weren't an issue up there.) In '02 when we got new seats, we ordered the old-fashioned aisle lights in the end standards.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-31-2010 01:39 AM                        Also, the trouble with trivoli lights when used in theatres with raised stadium seating in the back and a slope section in front, or a theatre with a mezzanine or balcony. For patrons in most of the seats in the higher sections, the trivoli strip lights below are constantly visible line-of-sight. Hooded isle seat standards shield the light from view for patrons higher up. To me, seeing lines of those unshielded lights is a major distraction in a movie theatre where anything that pulls the eye away from the screen makes for BAD presentation. If the light from a cell phone screens bother you, imagine looking at rows of bright lights at the bottom of your vision throughout an entire movie. And add that to Mike's downside observations and it's even more jaw-dropping. One of the things that should always be looked at in any theatre design is how easy it is to change a light bulb! Sounds simple, but it's amazing how many architects forget those labor-intensive issues. We had our lobby recently gutted and redesigned; we had to raise a ruckus when we found out that the architect used something like five different types of light fixtures and more than a half dozen types/sizes of bulbs -- some fluorescent, some CFL, some halogen and some incandescent. Two of the fixtures actually need to be totally removed from the ceiling just to replace the bulb. We didn't want to have to stock so many different bulbs or go through that kind of labor just to change bulbs. Trivoli lights may be easier to install than down light in standards, but not over the long haul if they are so labor-intensive to maintain.  |  IP: Logged

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