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Author Topic: bulb life for Barco DPK20c Melanie Loggins Expert Film Handler Posts: 154 From: Wayne, NE, USA Registered: Aug 2011 posted 01-19-2012 02:26 PM                        We just replaced our bulb for the second time. The first bulb had just under 800 hours on it, and the second had just at 600. Both started flickering pretty noticeably. Both were Sylvania XPO 4000w bulbs. (The new one is as well.) We've been open for one year and one month and gone through two bulbs, but we see evidence online of people getting well over the 1000 hours promised by Sylvania. We also figured something out about our setup: all macros were set to CLO mode, rather than normal. This was done by the guy who installed our equipment and, after a few other things that have gone wrong, we're beginning to think he didn't always have our best interest at heart. (We sold us the other two bulbs for $300 more than we paid for this one.) So my question is: is CLO burning out our bulbs? Or could it be something else?  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 01-19-2012 02:49 PM                     CLO (Constant Light Output) varies lamp power to maintain screen light as the lamp ages, and compensate for the brightness difference between 2D and 3D. My opinion is that it should be used. You can check actual lamp power by picking "service" on the top screen of the touchscreen. If you just pick a preset macro (ie 2D flat or 2D Scope) with the lamp on then check the "service" screen for lamp power you will see what power your lamps actually run at. Assuming you have 3D, the power should be close to maximum for one 3D format - depending on your masking one will have a larger image than the other - and above minimum for both 2D formats. If it's in CLO mode and assuming the LSC setup is correct you will also see the target and actual screen brightness in Ft-L. If you have the ST password and know what you're doing (you can totally screw up the projector as ST) you can check what LSC files are set up and what macro uses them. A proper (in my opinion) installation will have LSC files for 2D flat, 2D scope, 3D flat, and 3D scope... and the associated macros will call that file and then set the lamp in CLO mode with a relevant target. There are lots of theories about lamp life. I don't see Osram lamps getting much past warranty life in Barco lamphouses, and doing so is unwise because once fully out of warranty should a lamp explode, the lamphouse damage isn't covered. I find that the 4kW lamps usually get to warranty, but that's no longer 1000Hr - it's 700Hr according to Osram although Barco hasn't changed the lamp data in the projector. At 1000Hr you've used up the additional 300Hr rupture warranty and a lamp explosion will almost certainly cost you for the mirrors and front plate.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 01-19-2012 03:11 PM                     My Barcos are in normal mode and I easily pull 1000h before changeout. I would think that running in CLO mode (where it's using its built-in light sensor for a set lumen output that is adjustable in the ST program of the Commander screen. I bet your technician ran that setting up quite high where its causing the bulb to be overpowered at all times which will shorten the life of any bulb) isn't too fair on the bulb since the power to the bulb is adjusting between modes. In 2D mode, the power to the bulb can actually drops to almost 50% of the run where the bulb isn't designed to run at such a low amperage which can cause problems towards the end of its life. Then, in 3D mode, the power kicks up to over 100% to get more light out which is over powering the bulb and the results is less life. If you know how to use the ST switching the program from normal to CLO is quite easy, but true..it can be a trick to set the luminance factors in CLO why I stay with normal and run the rectifier scale up to the max at 255 for both 2D and 3D showings. Are you using DHP4000W bulbs in that Barco? They carry a 1000H warranty .. and 100% throughout the entire run of the bulb -no pro rated warranty. Or could use USHIO 40 (don't know the model number right off hand for the USHIO bulbs) in the Barco, but the pro rate on the warranty begins after a certain number of hours. Plus, you need tonnage of exhaust (like 800cfm as a minimum) for these units even though it's said that you don't need external exhaust with these smaller units...  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 01-19-2012 06:01 PM                       I've installed several Barco's of this size and always meet warranty hours and the bulb looks quite good when the red light comes on. I would want to know what you are using for an external exhaust fan and what the CFM figure as really measured, not estimated. I used Fan Tech 500 CFM fans in line fans directly above the projector. Not to say it can't be done some other way but more CFM is almost always better. A cool down cycle on the external fan at the end of the night is mandatory as far as I'm concerned. I've used both Ushio and Osram in these sizes and both worked well.  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 01-19-2012 07:16 PM                     Osram XBO4000W/DHP lamps have a 700 hour warranty, with a 300 hour extended warranty on envelope failure. You can call that a 1000 hour warranty if you want, but there is no warranty past 700 hours for a lamp that flickers or won't start. I agree on looking at the exhaust flow. This must be checked on installation. There's no airflow switch on a 20C so it will work with insufficient airflow, the light engine cooling will be acceptable with sub-par airflow, but the lamphouse will be overheating. Running the lamp at 100% all the time in "standard" mode is not a great idea. In a 3D house the screen will be grossly overbright in 2D with washed out blacks. Setting up the LSC light level files and the preset macros for CLO mode is easy, a competent tech will do it during installation and annual maintenance. If you neglect the LSC files it's possible to inadvertently disable the lamp alignment mode: without an LSC file the lamp level reading is always 0 Ft-L and you have no way of adjusting the lamp alignment.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-20-2012 06:22 AM                     Our only short-lived lamps in the Barcos have been Osrams. Ushios have, thus far, always gone the distance (1000Hours on a 4K). Monte, you, once again, do not know what you speak. The Barco projector will NOT run a lamp outside of the manufacturer's specifications. Unlike Christie projectors, there is no 110% mode...the range of the lamp is part of what is set when one identifies the lamp to the projector. Having the lamp output fixed means that, at most, one format is at the correct light output. In a 2D only theatre, I could see splitting the difference between Flat/Scope and letting the lamp output be fixed (and occasionally boosting it up a bit for aging) but in a 2D/3D theatre...there is no good way to have the "proper" amount of light on all formats with a fixed lamp setting. Thems the facts. The downside to swinging the current between the extremes is it WILL make a lamp less stable as it ages. We always recommend separate lamps for 2D and 3D and occasionally get folks to do it! This is a case where Barco has the other two DLP companies beat...separate lamphouses and the lamphouse will keep track of what lamp and how many hours are on it. The nice thing is that 3D lamphouse could be used in several of their 3D theatres (if the lamp size is correct)...it need not be locked into say Screen #1. It also makes for a nice ready spare should an emergency arise. -Steve  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 01-20-2012 02:48 PM                     Gee..sorry on that - seen the screens of other Barcos located in my area with the units in Normal mode, with the power bar pegged past the maximum wattage of the bulb, thus figured that the rectifier is overpowering the bulb to meet fL's. Mine are reading below the maximum.. ...what do I know... - Monte  |  IP: Logged Antti Nayha Master Film Handler Posts: 268 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: Oct 2008 posted 01-21-2012 05:34 AM                     Here’s a screenshot from the Communicator software: Now, supposing that the lamp is a Philips LTIX-4500W-HS… it has a rated current of 135 A and a min/max range of 80–150 A. As Steve said, Barco won’t let you run the lamp over the ”official” range: minimum: 80 A = 2350 W = 53 % rated: 135 A = 4000 W = 90 % maximum: 150 A = 4320 W = 100 % It might go a couple of watts over 4320 when running at ”255” (maximum), but not so much that it really matters. quote: Steve Guttag there is no good way to have the "proper" amount of light on all formats with a fixed lamp setting. Thems the facts. Well, you can defocus the bulb manually by adjusting the Z-axis to cut down light levels for 2D. This is relatively easy to do in a Barco: just open the side cover and turn the knob, no tools needed. But I guess that the dual-lamphouse option is almost as easy, and will save you money in the long term.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-21-2012 07:47 AM                     Defocusing the lamp is rarely a good option, though popular historically. Look at what is happening to the light as you defocus it, its uniformity goes to pot...the reflector was designed with specific foci. -Steve  |  IP: Logged Antti Nayha Master Film Handler Posts: 268 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: Oct 2008 posted 01-21-2012 07:56 AM                     Judging by the naked eye, at least Barco seems to handle defocusing really well. But to keep it scientific, I’ll make some measurements next time!  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 01-21-2012 08:14 PM                     I like the idea of an extractable lamp house, but I have seen prices for Barco Lamphouses in the 4000 US$ range. Might be okay for a large house with multiple screens if swapped between different projectors as needed, but you can spend a lot of lamp runtime for that money otherwise. Christies, on the other hand, have easy and quick automated lamp loc adjustment, so it might in fact be easier and cheaper to swap bulbs between longer 2D/3D showings without the additional cost for a lamp house. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Antti Nayha Master Film Handler Posts: 268 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: Oct 2008 posted 01-22-2012 05:10 AM                     There’s also a motorized lamphouse available for Barco’s B-series projectors, although it’s only meant for lamps from 3 kW upwards. With that, you get automatic lamp alignment.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 01-22-2012 09:32 AM                     Any idea what it costs? - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-22-2012 02:11 PM                     Motorized lamphouses as well as the option of putting the motors on existing lamphouses for the C series have been available since they came out. In my opinion, Christie has the best auto lamp adjust...Barcos takes longer and doesn't seem to get quite as close...though they have made improvements that I have not verified since I last checked. One thing that Barco does have that Christie does not is the option to JUST tweak the "Z" axis...which is what will drift just with age. Christie can only do all or nothing. The cost on the "C" lamphouse is closer to $5K street costs and even more for the "B" lamphouses. However, as to cost of recoupment...you are oh so wrong on how fast that changes...I can often go from a 4K 3D lamp at 1000 hours to a 1.2K lamp at 3000 hours, plus the savings in electricity and the cost of the lamps themselves. The lamphouse will pay for itself in a couple of years...depending on the size of lamps...lamp costs go up geometrically due to the notably increase cost of lamp plus the decrease in runable life. Another advantage to the lamphouse method is that the skill level of the person changing the lamphouse need be MUCH lower than the one changing the lamp itself. There is nowhere near the safety factor too since the lamphouse can contain an explosion. You can also change a lamphouse with minimal cooling time versus pulling a hot xenon lamp raw. -Steve  |  IP: Logged Dranreb Rosales Film Handler Posts: 1 From: Choa Chu kang,/Singapore, Singapore Registered: Apr 2012 posted 06-06-2012 07:46 AM                     Hi everyone, I found this site very useful for a guy like me. I've been handling lamp replacement for 81 screens and I was just wondering why our lamp cannot reach the 1000 hrs given by OSRAM. Most of our projectors are Barco DP2K-20c and are set in Normal mode. I normally set the light output at 180 and gradually adjust it as the lamp run hours increases. Is there any other way of maintaining the lamp so it could reach 1000 hours? Currently, my average is at 800 only. Thanks  |  IP: Logged

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