|
|
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
|
|
Author
|
Topic: 11.1 discrete audio Barco 'Auro-3D' debuts with 'Red Tails'
|
|
|
Monte L Fullmer
Film God
Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004
|
posted 03-12-2012 01:04 PM
Going backwards again. Looks like going back to "matrix" sound.
Maybe taking the discrete, wideband channels and sending them through an EQ device to separate and send certain frequencies to their respective channels.
Another gimmick that'll fade with the other sound gimmicks.
linky
quote:
Creating a new dimension in cinema sound
Auro-3D is the next-generation 3D sound format for the cinema industry. Developed by Galaxy Studios and powered by Barco, Auro-3D turns conventional cinema audio into a fully immersive 3D sound experience, with sounds coming from all around and above the listener.
100% compatibility with existing standards
Auro-3D improves the audio experience by making intelligent use of the headroom in today's audio standards. This means that the current formats and channels can still be used for content generation and distribution. No changes to SMPTE standards or the DCI specifications are required. As an exhibitor, you will still receive 1 DCP containing the movie content – your Auro-3D decoder will simply extract the extra sound information from the existing 5.1 or 7.1 track files, when present.
Commercially viable
Auro-3D can easily be installed in new-built or existing theaters, in most cases utilizing components from your current audio system. According to your speaker layout, simply adding height speakers can bring real 3D audio to your theater. Moreover, Auro-3D sound processing is similar to, and compatible with, existing set-ups.
A unique differentiator
Auro-3D creates a unique differentiator – allowing you to maintain your premium 3D revenues and differentiate yourself from the competition.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
|
posted 03-12-2012 06:59 PM
quote: Dominic Espinosa
The question is: does it make a difference?
Customers ask from time to time if we have 7.1 (which our bigger screens do) but I'm not so sure they can really tell.
To me it's pretty darn subtle.
You hit the nail on the head, the difference is almost innoticable for 95% of all movies. Most sound mixes tend to totally neglect the surround channels alltogether. And actually, surround sound is generally bad in most theaters I know, even those that got the "THX approved" stamp all over them (not that that's really worth a dime nowadays, your $100 Logitech 7.1 home cinema set boasts the same logo).
This Barco system introduces new speakers closer to the ceiling, alongside a "voice of god" speaker and I guess that many theaters will have a hard time placing those speakers.
Instead of placing new flimsy surround speakers, it would be better to consolidate them into a few larger, more powerfull, full range speakers at a few strategic positions. Most surround sound still sounds far to directional and often lacks any kind of impact.
What I actually don't understand is why the industry keeps pushing for more "discrete channels"? Is it a complot instigated by the speaker and amp maffia? We could do so much more with digital sound... Even the cheapest PC on the market has enough processing to handle like 100 channels of raw PCM sound simultaneously at CD quality bitrates. Storage also is of no concern anymore.
So, why does nobody develop a next generation sound system that's based on sound fields rather than discrete channels? The sound processour could calculate the optimal sound for the actual situation in the auditorium. I guess this could also minimize the amount of speakers and amps needed in many auditoriums, yet result in a far superior sound.
Many games have been doing this for years in a way, they map their in-game sound back to generic 7.1, 6.1, 5.1 or even 2.1 or 2.0. The results are often pretty amazing and far more immersive than most action movies tend to achieve, even when played on the same equipment.
| IP: Logged
|
|
Daniel Schulz
Master Film Handler
Posts: 387
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2003
|
posted 03-12-2012 07:39 PM
The Barco Auro 3D system is almost-but-not-quite discrete. They are using the fact that 24 bits gives you more than enough headroom to encode the extra data in the files, effectively reducing the resolution of the LPCM soundtracks from 48k/24 bit to 48k/20 bit, and using the extra 4 bits for the extra channel information. This enables distribution of a single 5.1 DCP: if you have an Auro 3D decoder then you can extract out the full 11.1 soundtrack; if not, then you play back in 5.1. So the 11.1 soundtrack is discrete, but not quite full 48/24. An elegant solution, really, but of course as the board has commented DCI will permit up to 16 channels for full range audio, so the studios and exhibitors will have to make a determination if the elegance of a single DCP inventory trumps.
Barco is using the Datasat AP20 as the cinema processor for the system, using one of the expansion slots. As the AP20 is a 16 channel processor, it is also well suited for discrete 11.1 channel mixes if and when those become available.
To Marcel's point: there is at least one company, Iosono, that is doing demonstrations of wave field synthesis for movie soundtrack reproduction. It's quite impressive!
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
|
posted 03-13-2012 02:24 AM
quote:
Maybe this is what you're looking for: There's another company, Immsound, which is going to be at CinemaCon, so hopefully there's enough room in the Coliseum booth for whatever equipment is required!
Interresting, I've never heard of immsound, but their site looks promising. It also supports upmixing conventional surround sound (e.g. 5.1, 7.1) to "3D".
Although, I guess a small company from Spain isn't going to convince Hollywood to mix their content in their native format anytime soon, unless some company like Dolby will buy them of course.
quote:
But, ultimately it's still going to be about channels:
Sure, more channels will get you more precision. But I guess this approach is, in the end, far better than any discrete multichannel technology, like 11.1 or 22.2 or whatever will be next.
Edit: I totally overlooked David's comment, my humble excuses ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
I also didn't know Iosono, but this also looks very promising. In essence, it looks like the same approach and they also seem to have a pilot with a few large Hollywood productions (Immortals, Wrath of the Titans).
It is nice to see there are quite some initiatives already, let's just hope they can settle on a standard for once...
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
|
posted 03-21-2012 10:15 AM
Immsound and IOSONO made me curious, I wanted to hear it myself. I couldn't find a cinema within comfortable range featuring IOSONO, but I found one using Immsound.
Last wednesday (already a week ago) I've visited the UCI Cinema in Düsseldorf, which is a general multiplex-style cinema.
Like many multiplex chains, they recently introduced a new "premium" concept called "iSens". So they recently renovated their largest auditorium. They've replaced their seats with new fake leather ones, installed a 24x10m (or 76x32ft for the people that refuse to convert to the metric system ![[Smile]](smile.gif) ) silver screen and a 4K NEC projector with RealD XL to go with it. In additon to that, they installed my main attraction: an immsound based sound system, advertised as 23.1 surround sound.
The whole room still smelled like a new car, so those fake leather seats were still shiny and fresh. The screen is one of the bigger multiplex screens I've recently seen. The first row is so close to it, it really is a joke. I've tried sitting in front of it and you need to look sharply up. It's like looking at a movie projected on the side of an office block while sitting almost below it... Also, you see the ambient blue light bouncing off the auditorium walls being reflected on the screen, so black is not black anymore, but blue. So much for silver screens and odd viewing angles...
I've watched John Carter in "glorious" RealD, dubbed over in German (It sucks, believe me, only Knight Rider and The A-Team dubbed in German are cool ). Additionally, I had already seen that movie and it wasn't really one of my favorites (understatement), but I wasn't there for the movie and at least it gave me some reference. The seat I had ordered myself was awkward. I choose one that seemed right in the middle, but it had a walkway in front. Unfortunately, nobody thought about the implications on viewing angles of such a walkway... I'm quite tall, but the lower 15%-20% of my vision were coverd with the fake leather seats directly in front of me and the heads of the people occupying said fake leather seats. Maybe I should've asked for a booster seat... But, I didn't really care. I wasn't there for the great view anyway.
I was hoping to see some of those immsound trailers I've watched on YouTube, but none of them were played. No mention of immsound anywhere actually. But it was clear they were using their sound system, it was advertised on the immsound website and on a "behind the scenes" movie on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJkQfnPXd8E warning: It's in German ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) ). The JBL surround speakers (I've checked auditorium #2 and it's using JBL speakers) have been replaced with KCS speakers: 6 on each side in normal configuration, 8 on the back, two in the middle of each side near the top (quite a strange location) and five, very special looking ones, hanging down from the ceiling, also made by KCS.
My X-Ray eyes were blocked by the silver in the screen, so I couldn't see the setup behind the screen. But the number of visible speakers in the auditorium already exceeded the advertised number of "discrete" channels, so I guess some of those speakers share some of those "virtual channels".
Since I didn't see one of those specially crafted demo trailers, I cannot judge the sound system in its native mode, playing native content. What I can judge about is the upmixed versions of 5.1 or 7.1 digital PCM.
Full disclosure: I'm no sound engineer, but I do know the difference between good and bad sound. Some of it may be influenced by my own opinion of what's good or great although .
What I've heard wasn't bad. But, unfortunately, it wasn't really great either. I've heard better sound in other, normal 5.1/7.1 venues, selling tickets at conventional prices.
The accoustics of the auditorium seemed OK to me, there was no noticable echo/reverberation. The problem was the sound system itself. One of the problems was that there was far to less bass for such a big auditorium, but that's still not the main selling point of the audio system.
The main selling point, the immersive surround sound, was the main problem. It just didn't sound "immersive", the sound was far to directional, in a wrong way. You could clearly identify the speakers it was coming from and that should defy the purpose of an immersive sound experience.
I'm not certain what kind of technology immsound uses for their upmixes or for their native soundtracks. The IOSONO sound system uses Wave Field Synthesis, that should be able to create sounds that seem to originate from virtual locations. This cleary didn't sound like that. Obviously, I was listening to an upmix that doesn't have all the necessairy information for complete immersive 3D sound, but at least it shouldn't sound worse .
I'm not ready to write this off yet. I will keep my eyes open for locations that either use immsound with native content, IOSONO or comparable sound systems.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
|
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
|
Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM
6.3.1.2
The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion
and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.
|
Home
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic