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Topic: Best Server?

Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 07-21-2012 12:10 AM

If this has been covered, please point me in the right direction and lavish me with blistering commentary!

I'm wondering what practical advantage one server would have over the other, personal tastes notwithstanding. I see GDC-this and Doremi-that, but does it really matter?

I'd be hooking them up to Barco projectors, whichever I wind up getting. They'd be used in a drive-in setting.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 07-21-2012 03:48 AM

Yes it ABSOLUTELY makes a difference.

As of right now there exists only one option for a hardware raid, and that is on the Dolby DSS200. ALL of the other options use software raids. That right there is all you need to make a purchasing decision if reliability is of utmost importance to you, but price-wise they have now become the least expensive server and also have the best designed interface, are the easiest to service and have the highest uptime over other servers (speaking from our NOC's records). From a servicing aspect, Dolby's support has also exceeded everyone else. There is simply no aspect the DSS200 does not win on except that it takes the longest to boot up, which really isn't much of an issue anyway.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 07-21-2012 06:09 AM

Well, Doremi is market leader, but that is not necessarily the point here.

Dolby uses an integrated system approach with their gear, while Doremi is a lot more open for expansion and tweaking. The Dolby GUI is easier, yet more restricted to the plain operational jobs. For a Drive-In as I understand it, where I assume not many issues with automation, TMS, other gear, etc., I guess the Dolby 200 is the better choice. + it has come down in price now considerably.

- Carsten

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Olivier Lemaire
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 118
From: Paris, Ile de France, France
Registered: Jan 2010

posted 07-21-2012 07:34 AM

Depends on what you're looking for - and when you are looking for.

For now:
What a 2K machine and dot bar? GDC, Doremi, Dolby, ... everybody will fit. Lower cost will probably leads to GDC (SX-2000) and Doremi (DCP2K)
What a 2K evolutive 4K and HFR? Doremi already fits (ShowVault) - GDC actually don't (but will probably tomorrow with the SX-3000).

Tomorrow:
Seems that Doremi IMS will be a good choice with Barco and NEC - as embedded and so warranty directly supported.
Alternatively, a Sony projector+mediablock, or a Christie projector+IMB, will probably do the job too.
I'm not really sure the will have tomorrow rooms for so many players as they were with external media block so far. Future will tell anyway.

If Doremi si well represented (market share), this has to do with it's quality (and an well placed price comparing to first competitors). It is, in any case, a no trouble choice (but not the only one possible of course).

And, as Brad said: the Media Block and software with it really really matters in your everyday life.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-21-2012 07:49 AM

Data point: the GDC still does not have any redundancy for the OS (boot) drive. This is inexcusable. The Dolby unit does. I don't know about the Doremi.

As far as the audience is concerned, there is no difference as long as the thing works.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 07-21-2012 10:44 AM

Doremi use an SSD drive which cannot be re-installed on the field (you need to obtain a new one from Doremi).

What Dolby miss is a little bit more flexibility within the configuration. I'd like I could set ethernet commands.

Also, the new automatic script analysis on Doremi website is awesome, is clearly very helpful on the field.

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Olivier Lemaire
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 118
From: Paris, Ile de France, France
Registered: Jan 2010

posted 07-21-2012 11:13 AM

Marco: Doremi give urgency boot sticks (USB sticks) that can save you ass when in trouble with an SSD (that can happens, even in these grade II components).

For GDC: for now (SX-2000/2001), they rely on a casual hard drive - no RAID. You get what you payed for after all [Smile]

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 07-21-2012 11:36 AM

You're right, I had forgotten. However those sticks are supplied with the server - hence they work only on one specific server.

Sometimes cinemas can't find the keys of the projector, I wouldn't even bother asking for a "emergency stick that came with the server"!

Anyway, you need to plug the stick INSIDE the server to boot it up!

Dolby's way is much much better IMHO.

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07-21-2012 12:07 PM

Probably everyone likes what they use most. Each has its peculiarities, pros, and cons.
I'm have some complaints about Dolby servers, but that's probably because most of my experience is with Doremi.
I don't like the Dolby "setup for dummies" approach where changing from their default settings is tedious. I don't like the closed network setup that can not accommodate non-Dolby network devices. I don't like that different software versions can not communicate with each other; this means a small (up to 3 systems) booth with a non DCI-compliant projection system can not be fully networked using one server as a TMS until that non-compliant system is upgraded to be compliant... unless all systems use non-compliant Dolby software, and you have to specify when ordering that a new DSS comes with such software since DCI compliant software is now the default, and it can not be reverted to a previous non-compliant version (and the current software will not play encrypted content on a non-compliant S1 projector). DCI spec compliance is nice, I suppose, but when an owner asks me "can I still play movies without it?" I have to say "yes, and I don't know if or when that may change". I haven't found any way to shut a DSS server down short of unplugging it or removing the front panel and pressing the recessed power button. You can open a terminal, log in as administrator, and do a hot reboot... pretty tedious as well.
Doremi systems work pretty well. The touchscreen seems to fail after a year or three but I recommend a separate screen and keyboard anyway, and you can VNC to one from anywhere on the network and do all server work from one spot. The OS on flash drive issue exists but it hasn't been a big deal for us. The boot USB stick is a decent backup but you almost need one for every server since many options (network, macros, etc.) are stored on the flash. With a few hundred Doremi servers to support we have had a handful of flash failures, generally on power events and the customers don't want to install power conditioners - all systems are on UPS though. The flash drive takes 5 minutes to install, we put a config backup on the RAID to replace the lost settings. For remote systems we can leave a flash chip and show the owner how to change it. The Doremi IMB is the only one I've used, it again has peculiarities but it does work well - only when trying to do less "normal" things, like using the HDMI connector, do you run into the oddness. All software versions will work with a Doremi TMS, or do transfers between servers if networked with no TMS. Software versions can be reverted, I'm not sure about the latest DCI-compliant SM though: it may not be revertable and won't work with S1 projectors that don't have compatible TI boards ("gore boards").
GDC servers work fine too. No major complaints: minor for sure like how the macro building utility doesn't let you move entries around like Doremi. You have to think out your macros and write them out, adding a function later is a drag. The drag-to-time locate function is nice, with Doremi you have to type in a timecode point.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 07-21-2012 02:08 PM

I thought those USB emergency sticks were server-coded. I may be mistaken though.
I guess you could easily boot from them disabling the "boot from USB port 6 only" in the BIOS. That - I guess - is for preventing customers' drives to inadvertently boot the server into something else!

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 07-21-2012 02:16 PM

In a way this discussion could be compared to the "boxers vs. tighties" debate as everyone who has used one compared to the other will tell you that the "other" sucks and is totally unsuitable.

So far I am sticking with Dolby for the reasons Brad stated. That, and IMHO Dolby is more likely to stay involved in the cinema business in the long haul. GDC and Doremi may not be around as long as Dolby will be and as pointed out their designs have some serious drawbacks.

Marco, I agree with you on the ethernet commands situation, but in my application at least I have found the serial command option to be the way to go. You can literally build your own commands and send (and receive) them as characters or code ($0D for example) and you can, within reason call them whatever you want. Even though serial ports are pretty much gone from laptop computers, it is easy to get or build outboard serial to "whatever" interfaces to control anything. I don't miss the ethernet capability at all really. Oh, and the best part: you can still use the ethernet to control the sound processor and projector at the same time while using the serial on the sound processor.

Here's a screen shot of my serial commands for the server at UC Irvine:

I chose to use text commands for ease of reference in my AMX program.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 07-21-2012 03:07 PM

Hi Tony,

I wasn't aware that converters serial-ethernet were available. That covers the gap, even though a built-in ethernet control would be just perfect.
What I feel is missing from the DSS is a little more tweaking capabilities. That said, I do appreciate that the friendly user interface is a big feature.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 07-21-2012 04:11 PM

This is the sort of topic that really can't answer the question...everyone has their own likes/dislikes...for whatever reason.

I will say...for remote service, the Dolby has been my favorite, by far. I can do most everything. I think the only thing one can't do remotely is load serial commands via xml file (or GPIO). There is a certain "niceness" to the RS232 port since I always use a REAL automation if the booth is to be automated (my personal favorite is the eCNA series). With RS232...those two devices ALWAYS talk to each other...no Ethernet oddities. That said, I would really like if one could issue commands via Ethernet too. The eCNA automations allow for up to 5 Ethernet devices so that problem isn't such a problem.

For showing customers how to get started...Dolby is SO much faster...its interface is, by FAR, the most intuitive. The only short coming there is the odd "lens turret" icon on the Control screen for "select." It makes no sense. That said...one need not put a "clip" into a show to run it on the Dolby...unlike GDC and Doremi.

Set up time is similar on the various servers (on installation) but the actions are different (for instance, with GDC...you clone one that have set up and merely change the IP particulars...presuming same equipment types).

Doremi seems to constantly be ahead of the others in getting new technology functional...like the IMB, 4K, HFR...etc. It is a pretty stable system.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 07-21-2012 04:23 PM

quote: Carsten Kurz
The Dolby GUI is easier, yet more restricted to the plain operational jobs.

The Dolby can do everything the others can, and easier too.

quote: Olivier Lemaire
What a 2K machine and dot bar? GDC, Doremi, Dolby, ... everybody will fit. Lower cost will probably leads to GDC (SX-2000) and Doremi (DCP2K)

In the US, Dolby is absolutely the cheapest. GDC is the most expensive by a pretty substantial margin (which I don't understand why in looking at the build).

quote: Olivier Lemaire
What a 2K evolutive 4K and HFR? Doremi already fits (ShowVault) - GDC actually don't (but will probably tomorrow with the SX-3000).

Currently Doremi is the ONLY solution for 4K. GDC does NOT have a 4K IMB. It merely downscales the 4K image to 2K, then upscales it back to 4K. Their marketing is VERY misleading. I am sure their next generation will fix this, but for now GDC is not an option if 4K is important to you. Likewise Dolby is not yet an option for 4K, but will reportedly be very soon. Do take note only the Dolby IMB will not require a power cycle every morning (supposedly).

quote: Scott Norwood
Data point: the GDC still does not have any redundancy for the OS (boot) drive. This is inexcusable. The Dolby unit does. I don't know about the Doremi.

quote: Marco Giustini
Doremi use an SSD drive which cannot be re-installed on the field (you need to obtain a new one from Doremi).

Yes, GDC not having any redundancy in their OS is absolutely inexcusable. However Marco is wrong about being able to reinstall the SSD in the field. It CAN be done...it is just a HUGE pain in the ass and requires a lot of raw command line actions. After the SSD replacement, the machine is quirky on reporting what keys are valid and such too until the current keyed movies play out.

quote: Dave Macaulay
and you can VNC to one from anywhere on the network and do all server work from one spot

Dave, if you prefer VNC you can use it on a Dolby. Many of us prefer the jupiter client approach. To each his own, but it IS offered on the Dolby...GDC too.

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
In a way this discussion could be compared to the "boxers vs. tighties" debate as everyone who has used one compared to the other will tell you that the "other" sucks and is totally unsuitable.

Tony that is not the case. The Doremi is a very good server and Doremi's tech support is a close second to Dolby's too. However the question of this thread is what is the BEST server.

We work with all of them and again, the Dolby is the most reliable. In a small multiplex and drive-in setting, this is tremendously critical because with only a couple of screens, losing a screen for a weekend could have serious repercussions on the theater's financials.

And Jack, with the Dolby even if everything took a complete dump, you can literally run down to Best Buy and pick up any old junk hard drives and run the install disc and be back on the screen without any quirks or hassles. That isn't the case with the other options due to the software raids being ABSURDLY picky about which hard drives are used and the difficulty or inability to reinstall the operating system.

BTW GDC has no repair/exchange program for when a problem does happen. That is also inexcusable.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 07-21-2012 05:13 PM

Thanks Brad,

Good to know the Doremi OS can be reinstalled, after all it's just Linux, no black magic behind it. But as you said, it's far less straightforward than Dolby way: stick a CD in, wait a little while and you have a brand new server. That could be the difference between losing 24 hrs of shows and that has to be kept into consideration because Doremi SSDs DO fail.
Any chance to have that huge sequence of line commands? They could be useful on the field.

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