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Author Topic: Video and Digital Sound Help Joffeur Umbro Film Handler Posts: 3 From: Belo Horizonte MG Brasil Registered: Oct 2012 posted 11-12-2012 06:53 PM                     Hello, it's my first post and before I ask my question I want to tell you I've learned a lot in this foruns and therefore I'm happy to be part of it and I want to thank you all for sharing your expertise the way you do. So, let's go... I'm a manager of an public art and repertoire cinema in Brazil and, little by little, I'm trying to improve the quality of the equipments and the standarts of the exibitions. We have two 35mm Simplex XL, and a CP650 (with cat 790) sound processor I recently bought to modernize our sound system and yet be prepared to Dcinema, our next goal (next year). Sometimes (more than I personaly would like)we screens DVDs, Blu-Rays and Media content through an OPPO BDP-93 and a DUNE HD MAX media player. They both have analogs 7.1 outs. To make this possible I ordered an adaptor/switcher specially made for us. It consist in one cable plugged in CP650: one side is DB25 and the other is conected to a small box that leaves me two pairs 5.1 RCA analog cables. So I can conect the Blu-Ray and de Media Player and there is a selector where I can chose which I want to use. Recently, we bought a DENON 3313 Receiver to solve the video cabin monitoring problems and it's working well. BUT I could no manage to use it to make progresses on the sound issues. My questions are: Is it possible to use this receiver in my sound system too? (his maing goal has been acomplished). What can I win with this? Is it possible to use it in a way that my "magic switcher box" is not necessary anymore? Even with the box, I think maybe is a good thing passing through the audio in the DENON receiver. I'm not sure I'm making myself clear. Any comments are very very welcome. I'm a begginer with a lot of curiosity and wish to learn and get our space better. In this receiver we can plug 7 diferente HDMI equipments. Is it possible to get the things ready to just plug the, for example, MAC BOOK PRO in receiver and the sounds plays normally with 5.1? Very Sorry the long message and the poor english. Thank you for the attention and the pacient. ps: in the D-System I'm ordering the next year I'm using the ACS-2048 BARCO scaler to use alternative content. I'll need another equipment or with this Scaler + Denon + "BOX" I'll be well served?  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 11-12-2012 07:34 PM                     If the Denon receiver has 7.1 audio outputs then you can go in the CP650 analog input and use the receiver as switcher. Presumably it has one DVI output that you can send to your projector with a HDMI-DVI cable. There may be a bit of setup trickery required to get the analog output live. Also, you will have a main volume on the receiver arguing with the CP650 main fader. If your receiver has SP/DIF digital audio output you can use the CP650 digital input (available with your CAT790 card). For a scaler the Barco unit appears to be video only, there are various video inputs and just DVI (video only) outputs. Using a Kramer or Gefen scaler is better if you want to get the audio as well. The Gefen has Prologic decoding built in, but that's a bit pointless as the CP650 will do the decoding. They both have pros and cons, either will work for you. If you get a projector with IMB, it should have an HDMI inout and pass the audio through the normal server digital audio output. I don't know if this would be 5.1/7.1 or stereo that could be decoded to 5.1. With that, you can skip the scaler or use a scaler with HDMI out to be able to scale various video input image sizes but leave the audio as is. The Kramer VP-728 will put whatever audio input is selected on the HDMI digital audio output, it also has SP/DIF coax and optical outputs plus decoded stereo analog audio output.  |  IP: Logged Joffeur Umbro Film Handler Posts: 3 From: Belo Horizonte MG Brasil Registered: Oct 2012 posted 11-12-2012 08:46 PM                     Thanks, Dave. The receiver is this: http://usa.denon.com/us/product/pages/productdetail.aspx?catid=avreceivers(denonna)&pid=avr3313ci(denonna) There is 7.1 Pre-Outs on the receiver. I think is the only entry I can conect the RCAs that cames from de CPC650 (via adaptor DB25 x 6RCA), correct ou there is any (better) option? Can you have a look on the back panel of the Denon to help me? The projector that we are gonna use for Digital is the Barco DP4K-23B. Another doubt: in this switcher/scaler you point me: the VP-728, where I can connect the cable the cames from CP650? The out of the CP is 25DB, so I'will need some adaptor to put on this scaler. Curiosity: anybody knows if there is such thing as DB25-Toslink Adaptor? What you people use to solve this DB25 matter? Thanks again.  |  IP: Logged Peter Castle Expert Film Handler Posts: 220 From: Wollongong University, NSW ,Australia Registered: Oct 2003 posted 11-12-2012 09:17 PM                     We use a standard domestic Onkyo receiver to handle the switching of our various video sources into our NEC projector while the audio goes into a CP500. We've used the DTS input of the CP500. We input our DCinema, eCinema, video and DTS audio all to a DB25 switch and then only have one lead into the CP500. Works fine, provided the switch doesn't drop a channel. You could even get a switch that could be controlled via automation although we don't.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 11-15-2012 04:33 PM                     Hi Joffeur, this receiver has no discrete analog multichannel inputs. As such, it can not directly replace your existing analog switcher. However, it offers multichannel decoding on it's digital inputs, and outputs to it's 7.1 Pre-Outs. So, you should connect your digital sources to the receiver, feed the receiver pre-outs to your switcher, and from there to the C650 analog ins. This cascade is not optimal, but aids in switching sources. The free analog switcher input can be used for other things - or you can take it out (direct PreOut to CP650) and only insert it if needed. The digital connections will also help you to avoid hum issues. The switcher you have may have audio transformers built in - be prepared that hum may turn up if you take it out for a direct receiver-CP650 connection. As Dave pointed out, the receiver will have it's own volume control, and also EQ and delays - this means some effort to set it all up properly. In general, I would recommend to set the receiver delays to zero and all EQs to flat, so you use ONLY the CP650 alignment options. PreOut volume should probably be set to the maximum, unless you experience distortion on the CP650. Current MacBooks with DisplayPort connections will also output audio through a suitable DP->HDMI adaptor cable. You will probably end up having ALL alternative sources connected through HDMI for audio AND video. This will be the best solution as far as source switching and audio quality is concerned, as well as video and audio monitoring (your video monitor needs to be 24p capable). You might never need a separate scaler - because the receiver also has some analog inputs and will scale them to FullHD. Well, VGA is missing, but... If you get a separate Scaler - I would even feed it's DVI output through the receivers AUX input. Or to the projectors second DVI input. At some point, you may find a way to connect the audio from the receiver digitally. If you have a Barco 4k machine, I assume you also have the Doremi IMB - it offers HDMI audio passthrough to the CP digitally. That's the cleanest option, and you can wire it in parallel to the analog PreOut as an alternative. At some point, you might have a live music setup - the analog multichannel input on the CP650 might then serve as a discrete L/R/LFE input from a PA mixer. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 11-15-2012 05:05 PM                     Well. With a Kramer scaler you connect the HDMI from your player to an HDMI in. Then the scaler HDMI output goes to a HDMI-DVI cable to the projector - since you've lost the HDMI audio by changing to DVI you have to have a separate audio path. On the Kramer the sound from whatever input is selected is available as stereo analog or spdif RCA. You can run either into the CP650, using a nonsync input for analog or connect the spdif into the CAT790 digital input (on the option card connector along with the surround outputs... they didn't have another connector to use) then you build a user format to suit: this of course uses up the digital input you may want to use for a D-Cinema server. The CP650 can do the prologic 5.1 decoding from a 2 channel stereo source, generally separation will be better from a digital input as opposed to an analog nonsync input. If you want DTS sound from a Blu-Ray or DVD player this will not work for you. Same with Dolby E (or whatever they call it) 5.1/7.1 digital sound decoded by a player. A CP750 will decode the Dolby version I think, I have set up a Blu-Ray player into a CP750 that had silence when DTS Digital sound was selected and seemed to have discrete 5.1 when Dolby Digital was selected in the player options - very good sound at least. The CP650 does not have this ability. You don't need to send any 5.1 analog audio to the scaler, and there's no way to do so on the Kramer. The Gefen has a 25 pin in and out for analog bypass and at least a 25 pin AES digital input, I can't recall if there's an AES output: but the Gefen will also do D-A conversion for a server and has Prologic decoding for stereo inputs.  |  IP: Logged Joffeur Umbro Film Handler Posts: 3 From: Belo Horizonte MG Brasil Registered: Oct 2012 posted 11-16-2012 04:29 PM                     Guys, thank you so much for the help. As always I'm learning a lot with you. Before I ask you these questions I've tried to put the 5.1 RCA analogs to the pre-outs of the Receiver and it not worked. Now, before I buy any other equipment, If I understood well, I'll try to connect the Blu Ray and the Dune into the TOSLINK entries on the Receiver and the 5.1 in the analog pre-outs and these analogs into the CP650. If I check and mantain the levels of the DENON Receiver in zero I'll keep the adjustments made by the DOLBY consultor who made the calibration of it. Is this correct? The Toslinks digital are the best option or the coaxial works the same? Thank you for the tips about the future configuration with the Barco 4K (for this guy I have another problem... the space in the cabin, I don't want to lose one of the 35mm and there's no room for the three in actual conditions... but that's another story).  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 11-16-2012 08:05 PM                     You should use the HDMI connection. That will carry video and audio to the receiver, and the receiver will passthrough the video to the HDMI output, and feed any incoming audio to the pre-outs as well. HDMI for audio is the better option - single cable for both video and audio, and more audio decoding options, especially important for BluRay Titles. Toslink can only carry 2ch PCM, Dolby AC-3 oder DTS. HDMI can carry all available BluRay audio codecs - including the lossless types. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Peter Castle Expert Film Handler Posts: 220 From: Wollongong University, NSW ,Australia Registered: Oct 2003 posted 11-16-2012 08:41 PM                     quote: Joffeur Umbro If I check and mantain the levels of the DENON Receiver in zero I'll keep the adjustments made by the DOLBY consultor who made the calibration of it. The analog pre-outs are controlled by the volume control on the receiver.  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 11-16-2012 10:08 PM                     quote: Carsten Kurz Toslink can only carry 2ch PCM, Dolby AC-3 oder DTS. HDMI can carry all available BluRay audio codecs - including the lossless types. And Toslink can't handle the full range for DTS/AC-3. Like if you were using an HDMI player that didn't do the lossless stuff, but was still using HDMI it'd do the "core" DTS at a higher bitrate than it would through Toslink. At least that's what I remember.  |  IP: Logged

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