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Author Topic: HFR - How Freaky it's Running? Olivier Lemaire Expert Film Handler Posts: 118 From: Paris, Ile de France, France Registered: Jan 2010 posted 11-20-2012 01:26 PM                        Hi all, did some of you already spend good time working around this f*$#@ HFR upgrade, testing and using (with test and/or any other labs contents) here and there, to share your feedback? Personally, at the beginning I was enthusiast thinking How Fucking Realistic it is - but after some 48 hours playing around on dozens of screens upgrading and testings, I start to think How Freeky it's Running for now (actual SW/FW/SM of course). No doubt this has to be ameliorated later on to run smoother in production mode.  |  IP: Logged Mike Moreno Expert Film Handler Posts: 200 From: culiacan sinaloa mexico Registered: Jul 2008 posted 11-20-2012 01:35 PM                        i will start to thest next week. i so the trailer at cinemacon and it looks great. but i think is going to be hard that all the companys start to use this format dont you think. mike moreno mexico  |  IP: Logged Joris Springer Film Handler Posts: 83 From: Almere, Flevoland, The Netherlands Registered: Feb 2007 posted 11-20-2012 01:43 PM                     Well for me HFR is giving me headache, partially because of the picture (Master Image wheel is spinning so slowly, much slower than with normal 3D, still wonder if that is normal) but also because of the really bad way Doremi and Barco are handling it. I mean forcing a communication error when switching to a different firmware and I think it is confusing one of our projectors a lot while two other projectors are handling it easily with repairing the marriage after the switch and one is just stubborn (keeping a tradition). Kudos however to YES (from Ymagis), their engineers have been helping me understand about a lot what is going on and have been making it a lot more clear for me and thanks to them it is working at least in 3 booths now. So far so good, it is just waiting for Doremi and Barco to fix it properly without such a dreadful way of firmware switching and losing communication between the Server and Projector. However, from what I have seen it was indeed looking really sharp. But in the end I wonder, is it worth all the headache and all the extra time and how many movies will actually come in this format?  |  IP: Logged Olivier Lemaire Expert Film Handler Posts: 118 From: Paris, Ile de France, France Registered: Jan 2010 posted 11-20-2012 02:01 PM                        Joris: Master Image low spinning is "normal" as Master Image system are only operating simple flash when in HFR (yeah, I know, PITA...). XPanD ones are operating at double flash (instead of regular triple flash in "regular" 3D mode). For the firmware load/unload and all weirdness around all that integration, I completely agree. I guess we (HFR users) are all in a raw hide path for now, that could (and will probably) be ameliorated by manufacturer. Afterall, HFR is really new and was not really defined completely until some couple of weeks ago... Mike: there are pro and cons, but I wish one day we could use 120fps everywhere (ShowScan spirit?) and nobody will think about coming back to the "old age of 24fps". Anyway, this will take time (technology and habits) - for now, it's still a little bit too raw hide for massive usage (but no doubt I guess Doremi will quickly smoothen that - like it was for the subtitling engine at Serie-II projector beginning).  |  IP: Logged Frederick Lanoy Film Handler Posts: 88 From: North of France Registered: Aug 2009 posted 11-20-2012 02:57 PM                     Hi Joris, Check your Dark Time setting in The "3 D File" of the Barco Communicator. It should be 1740 in Single Flash. If it not, you'll have a lot of ghosting. This data comes from Master-Image. Double flash will come for HFR presentation with Master-Image but not for "The Hobbit".  |  IP: Logged Olivier Lemaire Expert Film Handler Posts: 118 From: Paris, Ile de France, France Registered: Jan 2010 posted 11-20-2012 03:33 PM                        Frederick Lanoy : please check with Master Image - latest data from them (yesterday) related to The Hobbit HFR is 1736 (single flash, yep). See "MasterImage 3D HFR Set-up" [PDF File 1.7MB] from masterimage3d.com site for more infos.  |  IP: Logged Frederick Lanoy Film Handler Posts: 88 From: North of France Registered: Aug 2009 posted 11-20-2012 03:58 PM                     Ok. It changed since last week then. I think it looks pretty good despite the single flash.  |  IP: Logged Joris Springer Film Handler Posts: 83 From: Almere, Flevoland, The Netherlands Registered: Feb 2007 posted 11-20-2012 04:00 PM                     I think in due time, when all companies have gotten the kinks out of the cable they might find a solution for the "blinking" with Passive 3D. (you can sort of see the wheel spinning) Is that problem occuring with other passive systems? I am not saying it does not look good but I just noticed it instantly when the test file showed a very bright scene. (picture however was razor sharp and with dark scenes it was hardly visible and after a few minutes you no longer notice it so much)  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 11-20-2012 04:05 PM                     I agree that everything does not looks very mature now. Cat 745 is not any better, we are at the 4th SW release in a month or so. Projectors need a separate setup to work in HFR and wheels take time to sync to the new speed - and no "black 48fps" is available at the moment. Also no test charts are available, I had to make mine. It'll get better but if they're not improving it quickly it will be a massive disaster, with macros to switch, settings to be re-done etc. etc.  |  IP: Logged Joris Springer Film Handler Posts: 83 From: Almere, Flevoland, The Netherlands Registered: Feb 2007 posted 11-20-2012 04:09 PM                     I believe there is a "black 48fps" pattern, we have it on our servers. And we recieved from our intergrator a test chart (if I read the mail correctly), also Warner Brothers supplied one with The Hobbit case I think, yes it is part of a clip but it does work, just need to work fast I think then ;-). But some more support from the manufacturers of the projectors and servers would be nice. What is also annoying is that since it is so brand new that the TMS developpers havent had time to intergrate it in their software yet. Because they havent recieved the information how it all works yet and how they can intergrate it, all details have been released so late that it is just very frustrating for many people I think. Not just projectionists and engineers.  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-20-2012 04:25 PM                     My, what an international thread this is so far...  |  IP: Logged Olivier Lemaire Expert Film Handler Posts: 118 From: Paris, Ile de France, France Registered: Jan 2010 posted 11-20-2012 05:02 PM                        TMS integration: on the way. I guess it's a matter of days now to have majors (more spread) TMS systems to be upgraded to support HFR tweaks (which are really not a big drama to integrate in a TMS in fact). International thread: that's all about the magic of film-tech forums (and thank's to P. Jackson too ) Other passive systems: I did not had time yet to try passive XPanD system (received it yesterday noon) nor a dual Master Image projection with fixed glasses (nor a DephtQ and Volfoni passive anyway).... if somebody have some feedback, could be appreciated ("knowledge mean nothing if not shared").  |  IP: Logged Joris Springer Film Handler Posts: 83 From: Almere, Flevoland, The Netherlands Registered: Feb 2007 posted 11-20-2012 05:34 PM                     Well the TMS developpers still have a little while until they need to be ready for The Hobbit luckilly . And well sure it is an international forum, after all film is universal, everybody in the world has seen it one way or another ;-). And Mr. Jackson unites all with his new way of making movies frustrating us all I mean ;-). I did not know XpanD made passive too, I was actually thinking of IMAX and RealD or does it digitally work the same way as Master Image in a way? The only IMAX projector I have seen was a 70mm one and havent seen a RealD installation actually nor any of the other ones Olivier mentioned. I do know the LG system but that is home cinema ;-) and is everyday turned on at my home (will HFR make the way to home cinema as well?). But I am curious about all systems actually, always want to compare different systems with eachother. Think I saw Avatar on 5 different screens to be able to compare it. So I guess I will watch The Hobbit in a lot of cinemas too .  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-20-2012 07:27 PM                     Master Image is running at 48fps with a 2:2 (single flash) so it is going to have a bit of a "film" look to it. The others are supposed to go to 4:2 or double flash for a 96Hz/eye. I have not had issues with the CAT 745 really. In Europe, there was 4.5.2 to handle 25fps but other than that there was the original release of 4.5.0.77 and then 4.5.1. It is normal to expect faster revisions on new equipment...especially when it hits the field. Anyone remember when series 2 equipment came out? We were getting revisions daily! Dolby does have a 48fps test chart for setting the color wheel. Note, for testing the system you will need to use Warner Brothers Hobbit test because it is using a unique data transfer rate of 450...which no other 3D movie is using. Due to the change in flash rate, one will need separate macro/title/channels.  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 11-20-2012 08:09 PM                     We had a Hobbit test package. It wasn't a difficult setup on Doremi/Barco, about 40 minutes or so. The projector red tail light and server communication (non)errors are supposed to be curable by doing two things: remove the IMB from device manager and delete all server licenses (except 4K, Real-D, and closed captioning!!!) then reboot (the Certainty and its licenses will all come back), then change the server IP address to something else (that doesn't conflict with other equipment obviously), reboot and test the projector connection, change it back, and reboot again (and test). I don't know if this actually worked, I had to leave after the main upgrades and tests were done. There is indeed 3D 48fps black in the new Doremi software. I've heard that using this makes the transition between HFR and 24fps less flashy on screen but I will have to do some tests when time allows to confirm that. Remember to save the altered 3D file in a new name like RealD_HFR.3d and use that in the new HFR macros: if you just save it as the same "RealD.3D" then you've changed your 24fps shows to double flash.  |  IP: Logged

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