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Author Topic: DCI compliant or not for non-first run operations? Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-29-2012 11:16 AM                        Situation: We run only classic and indepenent non-first run content, now on film, but soon even classics are not going to be available on 35mm. I need to move to digital, but the question is, would it be overkill to purchase a DCI compliant projector rather than say a Christie or Barco 3 chip DLP A/V projector instead? We have rent Barco and Christie three chip, large venue (non-DCI) projectors a number of times for this venue with very decent results playing BluRay. The only time I would need a DCinema unit would be when we run sneak previews. If we loose the ability to do what with a non-DCI unit, of course, but it wouldn't impact us very much. And even if we had a DCI projector, we only run one-off shows of the sneaks so all the interaction of say a Film-Tech DCS system would not be needed. And the only thing sneaks gives us is "prestige" and PR bragging rights that we run titles before they open in Manhattan, but it's not our mission, so if we lost it, it's no big deal. In terms of cost, we probably could get away with a non-DCI compliant unit for around $35-40K, considerably less than a DCinema system, although the newer Christie DCinema "light" units might be a contender, although they claim only good out to 35ft screens, which I suppose we could remask ours down a bit to meet that spec. On the other hand, I would hate to cut down my screen size given for the size of out theatre (2500 seats), it's undersized to begin with. Any thoughts which way to go with this?  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 12-29-2012 11:59 AM                     In a non-DCI compliant setup you will not be able to play encrypted DCPs. Studios won't hand out any first-run content without encryption, it's that simple. If all the content you will be playing is available on other media, e.g. Blu-Ray and you're fine with the handling and quality of that, then that might be the way to go.  |  IP: Logged Bajsic Bojan Expert Film Handler Posts: 190 From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu Registered: Aug 2008 posted 12-29-2012 12:13 PM                     unless size of the projector is an issue, with the current prices of 2k DCI projectors compared to the price of similarly specced 3dlp full hd projectors, there is no reason not to go DCI  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-29-2012 12:36 PM                     Honestly, with the prices you are talking about, a DCinema projector makes the most sense to me. It gives you the maximum flexibility and virtually no down side. The only thing you would have to add to a DCinema projector is a suitable scaler for your non-DCinema content. For Blu-Ray or other 1080 content available in DVI/HDMI output...other than a cable it is good to go as is.  |  IP: Logged Bajsic Bojan Expert Film Handler Posts: 190 From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu Registered: Aug 2008 posted 12-29-2012 03:29 PM                     It would probably also make sense to get one with an IMB and not worry about a dedicated DCI server at the moment, if you dont plan on using it for lots of encrypted content. A NAS otoh is always welcome and can be used for whatever else data storage/ftp/backup you want.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-29-2012 03:55 PM                     except most of the IMBs are more hassle than they are worth, at the moment. I still prefer separate server to the IMB.  |  IP: Logged Adam Fraser Master Film Handler Posts: 499 From: Houghton Lake, MI, USA Registered: Dec 2001 posted 12-29-2012 04:12 PM                        You could always buy a DCI compliant projector first and the server later if you find the need for running DCI content, our NC2000 with lens was under $38,000.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-29-2012 05:28 PM                        Has anyone actually said anything about classic titles being unavailable in 35mm, or is this just a rumor? I am presently booking repertory titles for a performing-arts house and have heard nothing of the sort. At least one distributor is not exactly thrilled that I keep trying to book 35mm instead of Blu-Ray, but no one had refused to send me film. Obviously, not every title is available, but that has always been the case. I refuse to accept Blu-Ray or any video format for the stuff that we are playing. If I can't get a good 35mm print, I will book something else, possibly from a different distributor. Since this place does only occasional film screenings, we are not obligated to play everything, and plenty of good titles are available in 35mm. I am not interested in turning the venue into a giant television set (and have told the aforementioned distributor as much). But if I were buying a video projector for such a venue now, I would do as mentioned above--buy the D-cinema unit with a scaler and possibly think about adding the server later. We did the opposite in early 2010 (bought a non-DCI video projector); it probably won't be an issue for this place either way, but I miscalculated the speed with which DCI hardware would catch on in the industry.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-29-2012 06:08 PM                     One trend I like about the rep titles on DCP is that they seem to be mastering them in 4K so if they do have the title in DCP...it isn't such a bad deal and should look quite good.  |  IP: Logged Jock Blakley Expert Film Handler Posts: 218 From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Registered: Oct 2011 posted 12-29-2012 06:28 PM                     It will happen, Scott. It's already happened to us - and indeed it started happening even before digital came onto the scene. We've seen a great many prints removed from circulation, sometimes with and sometimes without digital replacement. Even if the print happens to survive it's not always of any help: several distributors in Australia now refuse to book 35mm if one has digital capability. quote: Steve Guttag One trend I like about the rep titles on DCP is that they seem to be mastering them in 4K so if they do have the title in DCP...it isn't such a bad deal and should look quite good. Having seen a fair number of rep DCPs now I wish I could share your enthusiasm. Sony's work on the 4K restorations is commendable, but some of the other studios are putting out some fairly dismal transfers.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-29-2012 09:39 PM                        Fox has pulled its sublicense agreement with Criterion and so you can no longer get ANY classic Fox titles on film. They will not even give permission to play a BRay as a theatre that was doing midnight shows of Rocky Horror found out. You have to run DCP. If they don't have it on DCP, you have to pay them $100 to "author" one for you. And of course you KNOW what that is....they are not REMASTERING one from original high rez masters for you for your $100 bucks; they are just copying from a BRay, or a DVD master, or maybe they are just using the BRay or DVD itself! Hell, I can do that with my own software for free, thank you very much. And so the reason they insist you run DLP is because why...they need all that security to prevent someone from PIRATING a title that's been out on video for decades? Who are they kidding? They just want to Kill Film, and that goes even the existing, playable prints. How much you want to bet, when they pulled out of the Criterion deal, they forced Criterion to bandsaw all the prints they had in their inventory! The swine.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-29-2012 10:10 PM                        quote: Frank Angel Fox has pulled its sublicense agreement with Criterion and so you can no longer get ANY classic Fox titles on film. Wow. When did this happen? I just booked a (recent) TCF title through Criterion (for a screening in March) and discussed booking a classic title through them a couple of months ago. So, what happens if a theatre cannot show DCPs? Blu-Ray isn't even an option? And what about theatres that only have 35mm capability (i.e. no video equipment at all)? And what if the film in question is not available on Blu-Ray and there is no digital master for it from which to make a DCP?  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-29-2012 10:38 PM                        Yah...go ask effin Fox! I just heard this today on the Drive-in blog. I will check the details out for sure on Monday and talk to Criterion, but the source seemed good. I think there was something about they would licensse BluRay, but only for one-off showings, not for standard art house kinds of weekend or longer play. No idea how that helps anyone or why they would set up such an inane restriction. I'll speak to the guys at Criterion and get more details. I am still concerned about what they will do with the existing prints if Foxs doesn't want to book film themselves.  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 01-01-2013 09:11 PM                     I've been looking at some pictures of your place, it's the Walt Whitman Theatre at the Brooklyn Center for the Performing Arts, right? That's quite a place. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to see were your screen or your booth is. I guess your screen is movable and behind the red curtains and your booth is somewhere above the balcony? You've used some large venue projectors in the past, were did you put them? Inside your booth or somewhere on your balcony for example?  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-06-2013 11:07 AM                        Marcel, yes, the screen flies right behind the Grand (wine red) Curtain. The lighting director hates it because it always gets hung up on the 1st electric. It has it's own screen curtain which is a cream silk/satin blend and it is a split traveler. It picks up the side curtain lights beautifully. Curtain and masking rigging tracks are all attached to the screen frame. I don't use the Grand Curtain for movies because it can't be motorized as it only flies; it doesn't split. For a few roadshow-type engagements like 2001 and and LAWRENCE, and MY FAIR LADY, I put a stagehand on that call and used both the Grand Curtain and the screen curtain together, but that's extra $$$ and you've got to get a stagehand that pulls when you tell them too. Switches and motors are more reliable. Scott -- I spoke to Rick at Criterion and it is official -- the sublicense arrangement that Fox had with Criterion Pictures has been substantially modified. Previously and for many years, Criterion handled all of the Fox library of anything older than two years, booking to ALL art houses as well as nontheatricals. That is no longer the case. Now Art Houses will have to book any Fox titles directly from the Fox. It is still unclear if these bookings can be had in 35mm or DCP only. Criterion will still be able to license titles to museums and performing arts centers, but on DVD and BluRay and one-off shows, not for extended, theatrical-type runs. I asked if this means that Fox will be sending 35mm prints to art houses that still have 35mm systems, and that remains unclear. While there was no mention of prints being destroyed, Fox is recalling prints from Criterion. What they do with them and if they will continue to service them to art houses is in question. My guess is, given how the industry as a whole seems to loath needing to deal with storing and shipping prints, not a chance anyone will be able to get any 35mm prints out of Fox. They didn't want to deal with prints to art houses decades ago which is why they handed them off to sublicensee Criterion in the first place. That they will NOW start shipping prints themselves is highly unlikely. My guess is they will insist that art houses, which in theory are no different in the eyes of a studio as any other theatrical venue, will have to convert to digital and play classics via DCPs or do without. Evidently the only bookings Criterion will be able to make will be to license DVD/BRs to the non-theatrical venues -- Rick specifically mentioned only two types -- museums and performing art centers, and for those, where they have live shows in addition to film screenings, meaning strictly non-theatrical one-off types of engagements. And that still doesn't answer all your questions, Scott.  |  IP: Logged

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