my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Can we now revise downward the cost of digital conversions? (Page 1)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Author Topic: Can we now revise downward the cost of digital conversions? Mike Frese Master Film Handler Posts: 465 From: Holts Summit, MO Registered: Jun 2007 posted 03-08-2013 04:05 PM                        For some time what many theaters have been telling the public was that the total cost to convert to digital was $60,000 - $100,000 per screen (indoor, not drive-ins). Now that the newer smaller screen projectors/servers have started to be installed at prices in the $35,000-$40,000 range can we ditch that old range? Most of the theaters yet to convert are pretty much smaller theaters with smaller screens? Installers/Sales: Are any of you folks not looking at these as an option? I wonder because I still see theater operators using the old range. Was wondering if it is because wanting to exaggerate (like the "we do not keep any of ticket sales" talk) or if these folks do not know about the units. Thoughts?  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 03-08-2013 10:11 PM                     My hunch is they'll go on quoting the high range -- this business is all about marketing hype. Basically, I see it breaking down like this: If you've converted, the impression is that you "spared no expense" and "spent the money." It also inflates the "divide" between home theatre and digital cinema. Now that cinema has gone digital, we need too make it seem as different, sophisticated, and out of reach as possible. Otherwise, people will figure it's only a matter of time before they can have this stuff in their home. And it probably is just a matter of time...but they don't need to know that just yet. Meanwhile, those who have not converted can blame the delayed adoption on the "high" cost of conversion. The industry completely threw 35mm film under the bus to sell the general public on the concept of digital projection, so I don't think there's much regard for facts here. If they had any regard for the facts, they would have thrown industry practices (printing as well as projection) under the bus, not film itself.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-09-2013 07:08 AM                     The truth is also that there is no "normal" cost. I've found that for our special venues/art houses (we'll those that do more than just show Hollywood movies)...the costs remain quite high to satisfy all of the needs. Drive-Ins...the current people aggressively converting to DCinema for the Summer of 2013 are pretty much required to purchase the more expensive projectors (they need as much light as possible) so they don't get a break...except maybe on sound. I'm also finding that people are specifying these new projectors, which don't cost all that much less, when you add everything up) to the detriment of the quality of the presentation. There is nothing new there though. In film, people often under-specified both picture and sound because it was cheaper. Since these exhibitors are footing the bill themselves, it is their business to decide the level of quality they want to provide or can afford. The marketing people are in full-force on this too. Most of the light specifications on these new projectors presumes a 1.8 gain screen...which will never meet SMPTE/DCI specifications for light distribution (unless curved...which brings up its own geometric complications) and the odds that one installing the "value-priced" projector will also replace their current screen with a 1.8 (properly curved or not) is unrealistic. The total cost of the installation goes beyond the mere projector too. What about the sound. Most installers have opted to merely put a D/A converter in and use the existing film processor...which creates a bottleneck in most cases...you leave the weak-link in the signal path and probably also leave a poorly done EQ done (many years ago) in place too. But it is the "cheapest" and fastest installation, right? Most of our installations have also included a new sound processor. The sound improvement has been substantial...to the point that our clients have made a point of commenting that they were not expecting the sound to be that much better but it really made an impression on them. We now have uncompressed, LPCM audio. Why cram that through some noisy processor designed for a completely different format and possibly value engineered too much? And lets face it, DCinema audio processors don't cost what film processors did either.  |  IP: Logged Martin McCaffery Film God Posts: 2481 From: Montgomery, AL Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-11-2013 01:22 PM                        FWIW: Our initial estimates are in the $60-100,000 range. It will depend on what we want to do and what we feel we can skip for now. And, of course, on how fundraising goes.  |  IP: Logged Dustin Mitchell Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1865 From: Mondovi, WI, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 03-11-2013 09:13 PM                     Much like the 'studios take 90% of all ticket sales' line, don't expect the 'digital costs $100k per screen' line to go away anytime soon.  |  IP: Logged Andrew Thomas Master Film Handler Posts: 273 From: Pearland, TX, USA Registered: Jun 2012 posted 03-11-2013 11:45 PM                     If you are at 30' or smaller, you are likely still looking at $40k before any other things that may be in need of upgrade to get going in D-Cinema. If you are even a hair over that 30' mark, you are probably going to be in need of a full size unit and so you're back into the high $40k/low $50k range for just projector/lens/server. If you need to change electrical, HVAC, etc. you can quickly run that number up. Still, the $100,000/screen digital conversion is mythical for the VAST majority of cinemas.  |  IP: Logged Bob Ezra Film Handler Posts: 75 From: Carbondale, CO, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-12-2013 12:25 AM                     Steve said "Why cram that through some noisy processor designed for a completely different format and possibly value engineered too much?" In your opinion,would that include or exclude the cp650? thanks  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-12-2013 04:10 AM                     The CP650 is on the fence. There is a means for a fully digital path...only that the CAT790 has been a problematic board with numerous cases of "Robosound" If you are going in via the 6-channel input (analog) with a D/A converter upstream...then you have an unnecessary D/A - A/D conversion in the path as well as a 6-channel limitation. If you don't have the CAT 790, the cost difference between updating a CP650 versus a new DCinema processor narrows.  |  IP: Logged Ken Lackner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1907 From: Atlanta, GA, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 03-12-2013 09:39 AM                     Though no longer supported, the CP65 and 500 have been rock solid. What is wrong with leaving them in place if the amps, speakers, and EQ are proper?  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-12-2013 10:24 AM                     How many cinemas still running only 35mm film are equipped with 5.1 surround? Doesn't the DCI spec require a 5.1 upgrade as part of a conversion from film to digital projection? Sound has to figure in as an additional factor in why some theaters are choosing to close rather than convert. The last two theaters in my area showing film (the Sheridan Theater on Fort Sill and the Vaska Theater in the middle of Lawton) weren't equipped with any sort of surround sound, just speakers behind the screen. While d-cinema DCPs carry significantly higher quality audio than the lossy compressed digital formats on 35mm film, I don't think very many theaters are doing their part to show off the quality differences. If a theater already had 5.1 surround the d-cinema system has been typically hooked into that existing system with hardly any sort of change.  |  IP: Logged Bob Ezra Film Handler Posts: 75 From: Carbondale, CO, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-12-2013 11:31 AM                     I have a cat 790. What is Robosound?  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 03-12-2013 01:49 PM                     Bob see THIS THREAD for a discussion on robosound. So far, I have about 75 active sites with a CAT 790 and have yet to encounter any instances of robosound. Steve however has several (hundreds?) so his experience has a larger installed base. But how he defines "numerous cases" is subject to debate. I'd like to know what exact number out of all his installs (and how many installs he has done total) which actually had the problem. In other words, what is the exact percentage of installs that experienced the problem.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-12-2013 01:53 PM                     Tony, We have hundreds of systems connected to CP650s and to my knowledge, all of them have Robosound issues when connected digitally. Some firmware seems to be less susceptible than others and some cat790 cards seem less prone than others, but I don't have any definitive data as I've never had the time to track it down specifically. This is why we prefer to go into the analog 6 channel input, as that input never has any issues.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 03-12-2013 02:00 PM                     Thank you Brad. I wonder why the installs I have done so far haven't had it crop up? Maybe because the home screening rooms don't grind out 4-6 shows a day?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-12-2013 04:52 PM                     Either that or you're just better than us.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.