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Author Topic: Dafuq? (aka unimpressed with Ballantyne / Strong) Gracia L. Babbidge Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 709 From: Bowdoin, Maine Registered: Aug 2000 posted 06-18-2013 03:51 PM                        Right now, I am a rather annoyed cinema manager. The cinema I manage has just one screen, and we converted from running changeovers with 2k reels, to running a Barco DP2K-10Sx, with a Doremi server, in the first week of April this year. With only one screen, the owner of the cinema felt it would be murder for us to be closed for more than one day for our digital installation. As such, he spent quite a bit of time contacting many different people before deciding to work with Ballantyne/Strong for the purchase, installation, and service of our new gear. After that decision was settled, a lot of effort was made to coordinate all the details, so that in theory, the installation process would be smooth. So much for that theory. All the equipment was supposed to be delivered day of installation (4/2), late in the morning/early in the afternoon. The base, and the server, and the temporary lens (the correct one was on back order), all arrived in the expected window. Since the projector itself was not delivered at the same time, we were very concerned, and immediately tried to find out where it was. Apparently, it was on its way to either Minnesota or Michigan, I don't quite recall. So, after some frantic phone calls, we were assured that a projector would be arriving later in the day. Around 7PM, it did arrive. Labels on the carton lead us to conclude that it had been sent up from a cinema in Alabama. However, we couldn't complete the install that evening, the IMB was missing. More frantic phone calls ensued. We were assured it would arrive in the morning. So, yes, the part arrived the next morning, and all was ready to run by the time we needed to be open for the day. However, we did not use the new machine for the feature we were playing that week - it had been playing off a BluRay fed through the video projector we've been using for our pre-show ads. We ran our first feature digitally, beginning that Friday (4/5), and all ran as hoped. Fast forward a few weeks. We got erroneously got sent an invoice, for all the gear we had installed. A few phone calls got that sorted out, as they had in fact, already been paid for the equipment, and installation. However, on the original estimate, the shipping charge was simply listed as 'to be determined'. Shortly after that, we got a bill for the shipping, and were astounded by it, as it was nearly $1800. We have asked to be shown the shipping manifest, and that request has been refused. That battle continues, as we are not unwilling to pay the correct amount, but really feel as though we are being taken for a ride. Amid all this back-and-forth over erroneous invoices, and battling inflated freight charges, our back ordered lens arrived, and we had a feature that contained some subtitles (the Reluctant Fundamentalist) for the first time with the new gear. However, we were not immediately aware that there were supposed to be subtitles with that feature, as we had assumed that our equipment had been fully setup for us. We received an email from a customer that was irritated that we had "turned the subtitles off" - which was not the case. After some emails, and frantic phone calls, we discovered that our tech was oblivious to what might need to be done to make the subtitles appear on screen. Curiously, the fellow that used to service our 35mm machines knew what needed to be done, which we found out purely by chance. The next snag we ran into was needing the Admin password for the server, which was unknown to us at that point, and it practically took an act of Congress to get it, but we did, and took care of the issue. Our tech also got the lens installed for us, but we were given the impression that Strong didn't want him to do anything for us. Now, our setup did not include a screen for the diagnostics of the status of the projector, only a 'tail light' indicator. This past weekend, it turned blue, rather than green. I checked the manual, and realized that while there was probably no need to panic, I had no real way to know for sure what maintenance action it wants. So on Sunday, I acquired a laptop, and loaded Barco's 'Communicator' software on it, but still don't know what action is needed. Yesterday, I got a message from my boss. Apparently just trying to to communicate with the server befouled the configuration, and it took half an hour to reset it. Today, I sent a message asking if the problems had been sorted out. The answer I got was effectively "yes . . . and no". My boss doesn't think our tech will be back out to reset it, or order new filters (our guess as the likeliest cause of the alert). I was also told "he can't say, but I think his company won't let him. Very illegal as I have a service contract." Because of the matter of not violating the warranty, our tech has to be the one to reset it. If you've made it through my grousing, and have any words of wisdom to offer, by all means, please do. I'm feeling just about enough to go deliver some swift kicks to some hindquarters.  |  IP: Logged Gavin Lewarne Master Film Handler Posts: 278 From: Plymouth, UK Registered: Aug 2009 posted 06-18-2013 04:14 PM                     Not sure in your situation, but over here on our VPF with DCInex it was confirmed to me in writing that resetting "maintenance alerts" on the projector does not in any way constitute voiding the warranty. In fact it would be a massive waste of money having to pay for service calls just to reset them once you have done the maintenance. In the communicator software you don't even have to be logged in to reset them..just connecting to the projector as the default user is enough. that, and the fact in the barco software it clearly states that type A + B maintenance "trained projectionists" are permitted to do it. Who holds the warranty for the projector? Strong, Barco, or some other company? not sure on your model must most barco's now like our baby DP2k-12c have user cleanable filters, they don't need replacing until they get broken (they are a fine wire mesh that I suppose could get corroded if washed incorrectly or the mesh gets punctured)  |  IP: Logged Gracia L. Babbidge Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 709 From: Bowdoin, Maine Registered: Aug 2000 posted 06-18-2013 04:28 PM                        We looked into the correct procedure for cleaning the filers; and it require allowing them to dry for 24 hours. Without having a spare set, we don't have the needed time to wash them properly, and allow them to dry. I'm not sure who hold the warranty. I also have not been thoroughly trained in all the software that is associated with the projector. I am able to use the server for the usual operations, ingesting data, show builds, scheduling and whatnot, however, was not shown anything to do with the configuration settings.  |  IP: Logged Gavin Lewarne Master Film Handler Posts: 278 From: Plymouth, UK Registered: Aug 2009 posted 06-18-2013 04:32 PM                     did you buy the projector and server outright or are you on a finance / vpf plan?  |  IP: Logged Gracia L. Babbidge Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 709 From: Bowdoin, Maine Registered: Aug 2000 posted 06-18-2013 04:33 PM                        Didn't do the VPF, and did not finance through the company that sold us the gear.  |  IP: Logged Gavin Lewarne Master Film Handler Posts: 278 From: Plymouth, UK Registered: Aug 2009 posted 06-18-2013 04:37 PM                     Sounds like a weirdly limiting service "plan" to me if they wont even let you, or train you how to clear maintenance tasks on a projector you own.  |  IP: Logged Gracia L. Babbidge Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 709 From: Bowdoin, Maine Registered: Aug 2000 posted 06-18-2013 04:51 PM                        Since they are refusing to show us the shipping manifest, we have concluded that they are concealing something. Hence, it seems that they are being obnoxious because we haven't backed down on wanting to see it. We don't wish to be over-charged.  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-18-2013 05:36 PM                     The Barco 10s has paper filters that look pretty much the same as Christie filters, but Barco says to wash them and allow them to dry: instructions are in the manual. Using them while a bit damp is maybe OK and the airflow would complete the drying quickly, but they should be dry before use. Barco also recommends getting a spare set if the schedule doesn't allow drying time. This is a new model though, and the installer may have never seen one before. Connecting to the projector using Communicator shouldn't cause any trouble at all, and never has in the many hundreds of times I've done it. You may have done something unusual - I assume you have a Doremi server since Barco has been supplying them pending the IMS being ready to ship. With an IMB server there are a bunch of situations that need a reboot of the server, projector, or both that don't apply to a server using an onboard media block. Obviously your training was incomplete. You should have all the passwords required, admin level is not a top secret, I would hesitate in passing out the root password - I'd want a good reason and confidence that the person using it could handle whatever they wanted to do. I don't understand the subtitle problem. If you used an OCAP version then only a badly adjusted lens could be the problem (or you are forcing a lot of masking by demanding a full screen image in both formats without any movable masking... seriously - this happens). There have been problems getting shorter lenses but you said the correct lens had arrived and been installed. Using a CCAP version it's a bit tricky to get the captions working but hardly rocket science, I go over it in training but using CCAP captions is unusual here, if someone wants to do it they call for help. You should definitely have the service technician password for Communicator, and the admin password for the server.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-18-2013 05:42 PM                        I can't offer any advice, all I can do is empathize. I think it is pretty much a given that no digital installation will ever go perfectly. But for you to not even have passwords to get into your equipment, when you're not on a VPF, sounds pretty ludicrous. I also think many, many companies use "shipping charges" as a profit center. I wonder what the problem is with lenses. I remember multiple stories here about the lens not showing up, or the wrong lens showed up or whatever. Even in our own installation here, the lens didn't show up and we had to overnight it in. Other than that problem, the Strong people have worked well with us. I think this is partly due to us having a good tech who has a good relationship with them. I think it's so goofy for these $50,000 machines to be relying on blinking lights to convey a message. Why not have something show up on the little screen on the machine? (And have it be something that makes sense, not just "ERROR 127" or some crap like that.)  |  IP: Logged Gracia L. Babbidge Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 709 From: Bowdoin, Maine Registered: Aug 2000 posted 06-18-2013 05:51 PM                        The subtitle issue was resolved. I'm not sure exactly of the specifics of it, as it was brought to our attention, and then resolved, on my days off. However, I do know that it wasn't a matter of the masking, or the lens, it was something with the server. The owner of the cinema, and I both now have the admin password for the server. The communicator software is something with which neither of us are yet familiar. When it comes right down to it, there won't be much point in showing my boss how to work it, as he is a self-proclaimed Luddite with a vast array of new technology. We only now have the communicator software because two days ago I downloaded it onto an inexpensive laptop purchased for the express purpose of being our diagnostic interface. Several times throughout the training, we were assured that there would actually be very little we would need to deal with ourselves in regard to keeping the machine running properly, rather than teaching us anything about how to handle the mundane / routine maintenance. As I indicated previously, I am not impressed. It really seems like we are being deliberately .  |  IP: Logged Tony Mace Film Handler Posts: 6 From: Cut Bank, MT USA Registered: Jan 2005 posted 06-18-2013 07:24 PM                     If you have/get Barco's touch screen that plugs directly into the projectors - it looks almost EXACTLY like the communicator software that runs on a laptop/desktop. I reset Maint A/B all the time here when cleaning filters. And apparently they didn't instruct you on how to change a lamp when the time comes and the communicator software is used for that as well. Don't call a service tech to change you lamp - waste of $$ Tony  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-18-2013 07:48 PM                     Well, whoever told you you have no need to communicate with the projector was wrong. The tail light turns blue to remind you about maintenance needed, and the only way to find out what's needed and to turn the blue light off, is through communicator. It also turns blue/amber when a lamp change is due/late: you need communicator to install the lamp (tell the projector what lamp is in it) and to reset the hour counter. If you get a red tail light you will want to use communicator to get an idea of what's wrong. If there's a problem you will almost always have to send in diagnostic logs from the server and/or projector - you use communicator to get the projector logs. Check that your installer was Barco trained/certified. If they screwed up something serious (with damage resulting) and aren't, the warranty may be void.  |  IP: Logged Gracia L. Babbidge Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 709 From: Bowdoin, Maine Registered: Aug 2000 posted 06-18-2013 09:25 PM                        My boss had been considering getting the touchscreen to plug right into the projector, but was not eager to rush that purchase, as it is rather pricey. The laptop I picked up cost just under a third of what the touchscreen would have cost. Now I am willing to admit that I didn't have the best mechanical know-how for repairing problems with the assorted 35mm machines I had worked with over the years, but I was able to keep up with routine maintenance. I expect to be able to keep up with routine maintenance with the digital machine too, provided I have access to the right tools, and instruction in what to expect, and how to handle it. I intend to revisit the manuals we have, as well as dig up other relevant information from reliable sources.  |  IP: Logged Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 06-20-2013 09:58 AM                        Was the shipping charge you mentioned for everything or just the projector itself? I don't know what a dlp like that should ship for but I can tell you shipping in and of itself is crazy expensive. I have bought auto parts online (bumper covers, fenders, etc.) and paid 2 to 3 times the cost of the part in shipping. Who shipped the projector to you Barco or Strong? I would not post it publicly but if you want to email or PM me the tech who did the install I am curious as I used to know the local techs for the new england area from NCS/Strong and they were all very competent and very professional. I will say that from my experience (I am not saying this happened in your case) theatre owners will bargain the price of an install down to the bare bones by eliminating certain things (like training time, extra alignment time, etc...) and then blame the tech or service company with the staff without mentioning that they negotiated away everything but the basic minimum. I have worked on installs where the theatre owner never paid for a previous install and told the service company "If you don't do this new install we won't pay you for the last one" this particular person then bought all used ORC equipment (nsp 3000 platters, vertical lamphouses, orc automations, orc era century projector heads etc...) All of this equipment arrived in mostly non working order so we had to repair/rebuild a lot of it on site. The 45 degree mirrors were garbage and the owner refused to replace them I could go on and on and of course we got it running and open on time (even though the electricians were way behind, I remember going out and buying a greenlee knockout kit so we could wire stuff ourselves...) As I remember this was the install where the theatre owner had the electricians run all SOLID wire for the speaker runs because it was cheaper. What was the end result of all the extra hours, the night spent in hotel rooms to get the job done even though by this time we were losing money on the job? Of course all said and done it was the service companies fault that certain things were not perfect and of course the theatre owner then turned around and refused to pay for the install because he wasn't "happy" Of course part of the blame lies with the service company for allowing themselves to be blackmailed and for agreeing to underbid the job but theatre owners also tend to go with the lowest bidder and have unrealistic expectations, I am not saying this is what happened in your case.  |  IP: Logged Frank Cox Film God Posts: 2234 From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada Registered: Apr 2011 posted 06-20-2013 10:59 AM                        When I got my digital equipment, a friend of mine drove his truck and a U-Haul trailer from here to Edmonton (545 miles each way) to pick up the equipment and bring it here. It was much cheaper to do that than it would have been to get it shipped here.  |  IP: Logged

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