my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » External subtitles (Page 1)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Author Topic: External subtitles Manuel Acevedo Civantos Film Handler Posts: 26 From: Québec, QC, Canada Registered: Mar 2013 posted 08-26-2013 10:04 AM                        Tried a few times, and now looking for someone else who tried it. So, the idea is to set the projector to get the subtitles (Cinecanvas) from somewhere else when projecting a DCP. Looks like something that can be done, but before going deep in the XML hand editing, will be useful to know about other experiences. It's for use in a festival and in an repertory cinema. Installed with Doremi and Barco. Thanks for any help and guidance!  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 08-26-2013 02:42 PM                     You mean you want to add your own subtitles to festival submissions? Will these all be in DCP format, or other electronic formats as well? In the case of DCPs, will they typically be encrypted? The subtitles will be shown on the screen, not 'external' equipment like electronic displays or glasses? - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Manuel Acevedo Civantos Film Handler Posts: 26 From: Québec, QC, Canada Registered: Mar 2013 posted 08-26-2013 09:46 PM                        Exact. A DCP plays from the server, and the projector looks for the subtitles from another "server". I can kind of see a place to say the Barco where to look for the Cinecanvas files. But not sure if it's for that, what format did it expect to find (map.xml??) etc. Actually, if this works, I'm hoping it will work for subtitling encrypted DCPs. For non encrypted ones remastering is an option most of the time.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 08-27-2013 03:49 AM                     No, feeding from external server does not work with DCPs. You need to wrap the titles into the existing DCP files and have the DCP player/server handle it. Do you have a budget for this? I think Wolfgang Woehl has an interesting piece of software for this. https://github.com/wolfgangw/digital_cinema_tools/wiki More info: http://www.michaelcinquin.com/tools/dcp/DCP_subtitling http://miblog.alma.ch/2011/07/adding-subtitles-to-dcp.html How long before the festival will you get these submissions? Will take time to prepare this. I know that some festivals use an alternative approach, they create subtitles in powerpoint etc. and then play them 'more or less in sync' over a second projector. This has pro's and con's, obviously. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Manuel Acevedo Civantos Film Handler Posts: 26 From: Québec, QC, Canada Registered: Mar 2013 posted 08-27-2013 09:32 AM                        Well, this looks like the end of it The main interest was using it with encrypted DCPs. For unencrypted ones we have a postproduction partner that take care of the creation and remastering. Virtual subtitling is my next option, but needs a separate projector, and most of the time a separate small screen. If you ever use of it, forget Powerpoint! Try qstit or subtivals. THANKS!  |  IP: Logged Janis Misevics Film Handler Posts: 2 From: Riga, RIX, Latvia Registered: Aug 2013 posted 08-29-2013 06:43 AM                    Manuel - I think Carsten is wrong about this one. It IS possible to play external subtitles without modifying existing dcp files. http://www.barco.com/en/News/Press-releases/barco-releases-dci-compliant-series-2-projectors-with-integrated-cinecanvastmsubtitling.aspx And this week we managed to get these CineCanvas subtitles on Barco/Dolby running. One thing we are still trying to solve - to get local language characters displayed correctly.  |  IP: Logged Manuel Acevedo Civantos Film Handler Posts: 26 From: Québec, QC, Canada Registered: Mar 2013 posted 08-29-2013 09:09 AM                        YES! I think that Carsten will be happy to be wrong in this case Do you prefer that we talk in private or here? Will be really helpful. I will share my Barco/Doremi experiments at the end anyways. THANKS!  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 08-29-2013 10:58 AM                     No, I am not happy - because I am not wrong ;-) This press release is from 2010. And it only means that until some time after the initial release of series II DLP projectors, none of them was able to display Cinecanvas subtitles, as was possible previously with series I machines. The subtitling software module was simply lacking, TI did not finich it before the initial release of their series II software. As an intermediate solution, Doremi developed a server-based subtitle engine (which is still available today as an alternative to projector-based subtitle rendering). After a while, TI supplied the Cinecanvas renderer and then ALL series II DLP machines were updated with this functionality. Whatever method you use - you still need to wrap your subtitles into the DCP, and if it is encrypted, you will not be able to do it. There is no means to tell the projector to look for subtitle files elsewhere while playing a DCP. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Janis Misevics Film Handler Posts: 2 From: Riga, RIX, Latvia Registered: Aug 2013 posted 08-29-2013 12:49 PM                    Manuel, I sent you a message describing the way we did to get these subtitles on screen.  |  IP: Logged Bajsic Bojan Expert Film Handler Posts: 190 From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu Registered: Aug 2008 posted 08-29-2013 02:44 PM                     I really don't know what should be secret about this, so if you can please tell us how to play external subtitle files on encrypted dcps, because it would help a ton of festivals. I am pretty fed up with running two projectors for subtitling DCPs as i could use them more wisely/profitably elsewhere. We are also running Barco/Doremi combos. Thanks for any info.  |  IP: Logged Manuel Acevedo Civantos Film Handler Posts: 26 From: Québec, QC, Canada Registered: Mar 2013 posted 08-29-2013 02:55 PM                        I will certainly post my tests. What Janis proposed didn't work me in the past, but I'm sure I missed something. And I will be happy to share and discuss any other festival specific challenges.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 08-29-2013 03:23 PM                     I don't know if anyone ever tried that - and yes, I would be happy if I'm wrong: The server uses an ethernet connection to the projector for control, image encryption, and subtitle transfer. This is normally a point-to-point connection, in order to secure timely transfer and to not interfere with the encryption and control. Theoretically it could be possible to run this connection over a switch and thus tap into the projector from a second computer, transmitting ONLY the subtitles following the same protocol as the DCI server would during subtitling. So the projector would receive image through TLS, control from the server, and subtitles from another computer with special software. These would somehow needed to be synced to the DCI server in order to play the subtitles with the proper timing. I have no idea wether the subtitle transfer between server and projector is secured, or wether a DLP projector would accept subtitles from a different IP while playing DCI content. Even if you get it to work, from previous experience there is a high risc to cause image transmission/encryption issues and shop stops. It would only work on non-IMB systems, that is, classic HD-SDI+Cinelink/TLS setups with external server/media block combos. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Manuel Acevedo Civantos Film Handler Posts: 26 From: Québec, QC, Canada Registered: Mar 2013 posted 08-30-2013 01:32 PM                        It works! Well, something goes on the screen. Indeed, it's a non-IMB setup, and I don't have access to one. I don't think the DCP server makes any difference, it's the Barco projector who does the work. I will let Janis publish the steps, nothing magical or secret. But play around Communicator software for CineCanvas. Need to check: -If the sync is ok -special characters -"freerun" for other sources without embedded timecode -correct the position on the screen -if some kind of metadata file can be used to map several files and avoid manually changing every time  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 08-30-2013 07:41 PM                     Okay, I read through the Barco Communicator manual and I understand how you came to this approach. Wow, hard to believe Barco actually put this piece of crap documentation into the manual. Description and even intention is completely obscure. But I admit it sounds promising for what you want to achieve and to my knowledge Barco is the only company offering it in their series II config software. Did you try contacting Barco about it? - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Manuel Acevedo Civantos Film Handler Posts: 26 From: Québec, QC, Canada Registered: Mar 2013 posted 08-30-2013 07:53 PM                        Carsten: Did you try contacting Barco about it? No, and probably I shouldn't, just in case they decide to "correct" it  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.