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Author Topic: 'Jesus Christ Superstar' DCP question Jonathan Goeldner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1360 From: Washington, District of Columbia Registered: Jun 2008 posted 10-21-2013 09:33 AM                     I know that the Astor Theater in August showed this and advertised 5.1 sound, but has anyone handled or played the DCP to actually confirm this? I know that the bluray hidef transfer from Universal pretty much trashed the 5.1 mix that was on the DVD and replaced it with a 2-channel sound. (why oh why??) All in all, it's a tad baffling why Universal would cull and retain the 5.1 soundmix for Jesus Christ Superstar's DCP and not for the bluray.  |  IP: Logged Victor Liorentas Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 800 From: london ontario canada Registered: May 2009 posted 10-21-2013 09:44 AM                     Yeah like they did with The Thing and The Blues Brothers!  |  IP: Logged Jonathan Goeldner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1360 From: Washington, District of Columbia Registered: Jun 2008 posted 10-21-2013 10:06 AM                     but weren't the home video releases new 5.1 mixes since original audio for 'The Thing' and 'Blues Brothers' was 4.0 ? Universal is very inconsistent in how they encode their DCP's audio wise, two that pop into mind are (and I'm sure there are others) Jaws - DCP: 7.1 / Blu-ray: 7.1 + 5.1 + original mono mix E.T. DCP: 5.1 / Blu-ray: 7.1 + 5.1 EX  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-21-2013 10:38 AM                     I would imagine they wouldn't "mess around" with Spielberg DCP's. BTW -- recent 35mm prints of "Jaws" had full 5.1 SRD But Universal has earned a bad reputation for how they're handling sound on DCP's of their repertory titles. Not just "The Thing" and "Blues Brothers" but also "Zoot Suit" and all of the old monster movies. This is (at least) the THIRD thread on F-T (that I'm aware of) dealing with concerns about DCP audio on rep titles -- and ALL of them trace back to Universal. Granted, this thread is simply asking a question. But I'm sure there are a few of us who will "watch this space" for the answer. Has anyone bothered to check those "7.1" versions to see if they really remixed them? Or did they merely duplicate Ls/Rs to the rear channels and call it 7.1?  |  IP: Logged Kirk Futrell Film Handler Posts: 95 From: Nashville, TN / U.S.A. Registered: Nov 2008 posted 10-21-2013 11:54 AM                        We just played "The Tingler" with Vincent price. The DCP audio is mixed incorrectly for that film. According to the notes that came with the original Percepto seat tinglers, there are at least 2 scenes where the sound is supposed to leave the center speaker and move to the surrounds so that Vincent Prices voice and some screams are heard from inside the theatre instead of behind the screen. Unfortunately the sound mix was mono and we did not have time to figure out and practice a solution to move the mono sound to the surrounds and back quickly. Though now that i think about it we probably could have had the ap20 duplicat the front channels on the surrounds and left the amps turned down until the appropriate moment then turned down the center channel at that time. Or the person making the DCP could have made it as intended.  |  IP: Logged Frank B. McLaughlin Film Handler Posts: 76 From: Denver, CO Registered: Dec 2011 posted 10-21-2013 11:58 AM                        FYI: Originally "SUPERSTAR" in 35mm mag was 3 channel.  |  IP: Logged Jonathan Goeldner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1360 From: Washington, District of Columbia Registered: Jun 2008 posted 10-21-2013 12:52 PM                     ^ a 6-track mix was also created for 70mm engagement of the film. when comparing the bluray to the first (5.0) DVD release of 'JCS' the placement of audio cues between the center-left and right-center is much more prominent and nuanced - it's essentially recreating the 5-front channel spread - the 2.0 bluray audio utterly fails in this respect. ~ in other related news - I couldn't tell if the DCP of 'Oliver!' was incorrectly encoded or played back wrong - but what I heard at Landmark E Street recently was a huge disappointment. My German bluray is 5.0 surround, the DCP I heard was 2.0 - heard back in two channel stereo made it sound way off.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-21-2013 01:36 PM                     I don't know of any major releases that were mixed in "2.0" -- Left/Right only -- aka Lo/Ro. The "2.0" that you heard was probably an Lt/Rt that was not decoded. And, if you were watching a DCP, they're not supposed to carry Lt/Rt mixes. DCP's of older "stereo" movies should carry either the original 4.0 master or (at least) the decoded Lt/Rt.  |  IP: Logged Jonathan Goeldner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1360 From: Washington, District of Columbia Registered: Jun 2008 posted 10-21-2013 01:49 PM                     but 4.0 can downmix to 2.0 - right? how and why would you not make the center channel a discrete channel in this day and age? from blu-ray.com's review of 'Jesus Christ Superstar': "Jesus Christ Superstar features a lossless DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 that more than adequately recreates the theatrical exhibition's four track stereo soundtrack. Voices are very well mixed if perhaps a bit too far forward at times and there's some wide stereo separation that's evident from the first moments of the Overture. Fidelity is excellent and dynamic range is fairly wide." now in terms of 'Oliver! - I really don't know what happened - if it was in encoded a 4.0, it certainly was not being played back as such, it was most definitely left and right speaker only - there was no center channel (... and no surrounds).  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-21-2013 01:54 PM                     The Lt/Rt *is* a matrix/downmix of the 4.0 master. Formats like Dolby 04 and 05 (aka Pro-Logic) perform the opposite functions to decode an Lt/Rt back to 4.0. Matrix encoding/decoding was the only way of getting that many (hi-fi) tracks into the space reserved for the analog-optical soundtrack (without re-engineering the whole 35mm format). For DCP's they can and should provide the discrete tracks. There's no reason not to. These studio people need to make up their minds whether or not they want "unmanned" booths because in 5-10 years' time, there won't be many people working in theatres who will know anything about Lt/Rt's and what-not. And, besides, the DCI spec calls for routing the channels to discrete speaker locations. Channel 1 is to be routed to the far-left speaker, etc.  |  IP: Logged Jonathan Goeldner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1360 From: Washington, District of Columbia Registered: Jun 2008 posted 10-21-2013 02:14 PM                     ^ just out of curiosity, what "channels" on DCI compliant audio processors factor in center/left and center/right discrete sources, when and if mixers were to resurrect five front stage mixing.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-21-2013 02:20 PM                     I'm not sure if it has changed, but it used to be the 4th pair -- channels 7 & 8.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 10-21-2013 02:25 PM                     With these incorrectly produced 2.0 DCPs, would one even be able to send that signal to a matrix decoder like a CP650 easily? We show a lot of rep stuff, and I have a feeling down the line it's gonna happen to us too. It hasn't that I know of as of yet. AJG  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-21-2013 02:39 PM                     For me, it requires a temporary re-wiring. Normally, our DCP audio goes directly to the Digital I/O option card in the CP650. To accomplish Lt/Rt decoding, I have to temporarily rewire DSS200 > DMA8plus > CP650 and apply programming to engage the Pro-Logic decoding on the DMA8plus at the appropriate time (some trailers are multichannel) Note that the DSS 200 doesn't provide "built-in" programming for Pro-Logic versus Discrete on the DMA8plus -- so I accomplish that via Crestron.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 10-21-2013 07:07 PM                     The AP20 has a software format option to accomplish that. One is for ES type matrix encoded surrounds - LS/RS matrix decoded to LBS/RBS, the other for Lt/Rt Matrix encoded mixes on L/R channels (+optional bass enhancement).. How do you actually tell a plain stereo mix that will create 'some' action in the surrounds and center from a dedicated matrix encoded Lt/Rt mix if there is no clear indication? - Carsten  |  IP: Logged

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