Film-Tech Cinema Systems
  Home     Products     Store     Forum     Warehouse     Contact Us    
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » 'Oklahoma!' Todd-AO version restoration / premier at TCM Fest 2014 (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3   
Author Topic: 'Oklahoma!' Todd-AO version restoration / premier at TCM Fest 2014
Jonathan Goeldner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1360
From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008

- posted 02-17-2014 10:41 AM      Profile for Jonathan Goeldner   Email Jonathan Goeldner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"The 2014 TCM Classic Film Festival will open April 10 with the world premiere of the new restoration of "Oklahoma!" Fred Zinnemann's 1955 classic based on the groundbreaking Richard Rodgers-Oscar Hammerstein II musical.

Restoration presented in collaboration with Twentieth Century Fox and Fotokem. The original 6-track soundtrack has been also restored and re-mastered at Twentieth Century Fox, in collaboration with End Point Audio and Chase Audio by Deluxe.

This unique 4K presentation, painstakingly restored from 65mm Todd-AO elements by Twentieth Century Fox and Fotokem, will be screened at 30 frames per second—the same frame rate as when the film was originally released in 1955. The original 6-track soundtrack has been also restored and re-mastered at Twentieth Century Fox, in collaboration with End Point Audio and Chase Audio by Deluxe.

Shirley Jones will be in attendance at the screening in the TCL Chinese Theater IMAX in Hollywood. The film will be introduced by TCM host Robert Osborne."

~

so not only is the 30fps encoded - how is this achieved projected back as such?

but with all the fanfare of the sound, does anyone know if they actually hard encoded the five front channel spread onto the DCP? or is this the now standard 5.1 configurement?

 |  IP: Logged
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 02-17-2014 12:30 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Ewwwwww, Chase Audio. They were responsible for the absolute destruction of the 1990 remix of Rocky Horror.

These morons need to leave things alone.

 |  IP: Logged
Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

- posted 02-17-2014 02:30 PM      Profile for Claude S. Ayakawa   Author's Homepage   Email Claude S. Ayakawa   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Although OKLAHOMA never played at the Kuhio as a road show, it did play there in the 35mm/mono CinemaScope version because it did not get 70mm until the road show engagement of SOUTH PACIFIC in 1958. The film did have two 70mm showings later- once at the Royal in Waikiki and and during a 70mm festival at the Cinerama. I saw both of the showings as well as the 35mm at the Kuhio and enjoyed the film.

OKLAHOMA was released in a special edition DVD set with both the CinemaScope and the 70 mm versions. The image and sound from the 35mm version was fantastic but the 70mm was a big disappointment. Hopefully when OKLAHOMA comes out on Blu Ray, it will be from the new 70mm Todd AO restoration.

-Claude

 |  IP: Logged
Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

- posted 02-17-2014 03:13 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jonathan Goeldner
so not only is the 30fps encoded - how is this achieved projected back as such?

but with all the fanfare of the sound, does anyone know if they actually hard encoded the five front channel spread onto the DCP? or is this the now standard 5.1 configurement?
No problem to play even 4k at 30fps with todays DCI machines.

For a special screening, they can use any non-standard channel layout. As a matter of fact, the SDDS type 5front layout is even one of DCIs 'approved' layouts, although hardly ever used. No problem to play it with any 8ch enabled processor.

- Carsten

 |  IP: Logged
Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 02-17-2014 03:40 PM      Profile for Martin McCaffery   Author's Homepage   Email Martin McCaffery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I ran some of the showings of the 70mm/30fps rerelease in the early 80's at the Uptown in DC. Really amazing to see. I wonder if they can get that almost 3D like depth in digital.

 |  IP: Logged
Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 02-17-2014 04:30 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So far, without exception, every 70mm transfer I've seen to 4K DCP has looked like garbage.

Let them run a 70mm print side by side with this new thing and let the people compare.

The 70mm 6-track soundtrack was actually quite good...though not as good as Sound of Music, in my opinion.

 |  IP: Logged
Jonathan Goeldner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1360
From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008

- posted 02-17-2014 04:33 PM      Profile for Jonathan Goeldner   Email Jonathan Goeldner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
OKLAHOMA was released in a special edition DVD set with both the CinemaScope and the 70 mm versions. The image and sound from the 35mm version was fantastic but the 70mm was a big disappointment. Hopefully when OKLAHOMA comes out on Blu Ray, it will be from the new 70mm Todd AO restoration
as I recall reading the Hammerstein estate were known to pleased how the TODD-AO version looked on DVD - that's why it's taken so long for this to appear - the restoration must have extensive. For the TODD-AO version NOT to be on the eventual bluray would be foolish on Fox Home Video's part.

quote:
No problem to play even 4k at 30fps with todays DCI machines.

For a special screening, they can use any non-standard channel layout. As a matter of fact, the SDDS type 5 front layout is even one of DCIs 'approved' layouts, although hardly ever used. No problem to play it with any 8ch enabled processor.

- Carsten
but that's only achievable if a theater is outfitted as such - five front channel sound would only exist in this day and age if said theater can playback 70mm features and I'd assume the specialty premium 'large' screens that use five channels to fill in the extra 'wide' screens and / or Dolby Atmos.

 |  IP: Logged
Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 02-17-2014 04:39 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
So far, without exception, every 70mm transfer I've seen to 4K DCP has looked like garbage.
What are the problems? Poor contrast & black levels?

One of the things I did like about 70mm, particular stuff shot in 70mm, was the deeper blacks and better contrast. However, some movies that mixed 35mm live action plates in with 70mm produced visual effects looked a bit odd (the 35mm stuff didn't have the black levels of the 70mm stuff composited into the same frame).

 |  IP: Logged
Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

- posted 02-17-2014 04:40 PM      Profile for Claude S. Ayakawa   Author's Homepage   Email Claude S. Ayakawa   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have not seen any DCP 70mm conversations except SAMSARA in 4K and it was gorgeous. Many have seen the 4K DCP of LAWRENCE OF ARABIA and have praised it. If these two movies are included in your 70mm DCP garbage list, I guess we all have to differ with you, Steve. [Smile]

-Claude

 |  IP: Logged
Jonathan Goeldner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1360
From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008

- posted 02-17-2014 04:49 PM      Profile for Jonathan Goeldner   Email Jonathan Goeldner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
So far, without exception, every 70mm transfer I've seen to 4K DCP has looked like garbage.

Let them run a 70mm print side by side with this new thing and let the people compare.

The 70mm 6-track soundtrack was actually quite good...though not as good as Sound of Music, in my opinion.
you lost me - are you saying that the DCP of 'Sound of Music' is better than the 70mm 6-track mix. I had read that Robert Wise was not all that enamored with surround sound, that's why the 70mm/6-track mix 'Sound of Music' is very front heavy, but makes great use of directionalized dialogue - this would be further emphasized on 'West Side Story's recently restored 6-track mix which gave the frontal soundstage such prominence and power - notably in the music.

 |  IP: Logged
Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

- posted 02-18-2014 05:39 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jonathan Goeldner
but that's only achievable if a theater is outfitted as such - five front channel sound would only exist in this day and age if said theater can playback 70mm features and I'd assume the specialty premium 'large' screens that use five channels to fill in the extra 'wide' screens and / or Dolby Atmos.
They will probably supply a standard 5.1 mix as well. I mean, if they want to do it right, retaining the original 5front mix is certainly valuable, and it costs them nothing extra.

- Carsten

 |  IP: Logged
Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 02-18-2014 06:52 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
I have not seen any DCP 70mm conversations except SAMSARA in 4K and it was gorgeous. Many have seen the 4K DCP of LAWRENCE OF ARABIA and have praised it. If these two movies are included in your 70mm DCP garbage list, I guess we all have to differ with you, Steve.
Samsara looked fine in 4K...not 70mm but a very good representation of what 4K can look like.

Lawrence of Arabia...now that is an embarrassment! This is not opinion...it is a hideous transfer from 70mm. It is absolute garbage.

Unlike many, if not most, I've had the privilege of seeing, showing Lawrence in 70mm many many times in multiple venues...I've seen good copies of it and not so good in 70mm...I've presented the film to Sir David Lean. I have also seen it in DCP, 4K on the same screen as presented in 70mm. Lawrence in 4K DCP doesn't even compare favorably to so-so 35mm. That is the fact...again, not opinion. It has many, many visible artifacts in it...one can freeze frame it to verify (I have). And the sound on the DCP of Lawrence is nothing to write home about either...it really sounded mediocre and I heard it in a THX theatre that was indeed calibrated and does indeed meet spec.

quote: Jonathan Goeldner
are you saying that the DCP of 'Sound of Music' is better than the 70mm 6-track mix.
NO! I'm saying that I think the 70mm 6-track mix is an excellent representation of how good a 70mm 6-track mix can sound. It mix was 1st rate. Again, I've run a lot of 70mm in my day...I've seen it and heard it quite a bit...both magnetic and digital. But putting the medium aside, The Sound of Music's 6-track mix was excellent. It was better, in my opinion, than Oklahoma's 6-track mix...but that is my opinion.

I don't know what your fixation is with surround and their use or lack thereof. If the sound designer wants to use them for effect or to convey realism or even atmosphere, so be it. If not...that is fine too. The movie is on the screen, not in the audience, I can certainly appreciate one that concentrates their sound in that area more than in the audience. Furthermore, back in the 50s/60s, aside from novelties like Fantasia, Surrounds meant turning all of the speakers on in the audience without directionality. It can be fine for adding ambiance but could be a distraction for adding a directional effect that can't have direction due to the nature of a mono surround track.

 |  IP: Logged
Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 02-18-2014 04:51 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Speaking of comparisons the Red Mysterium MX (digital) vs The Panaflex (35mm) is almost a joke. Run it up to 4:08, the close up of the eye is the best example of film killing digital!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OQ6hdyaNBw

Mark

 |  IP: Logged
Jonathan Goeldner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1360
From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008

- posted 02-18-2014 05:33 PM      Profile for Jonathan Goeldner   Email Jonathan Goeldner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag

NO! I'm saying that I think the 70mm 6-track mix is an excellent representation of how good a 70mm 6-track mix can sound. It mix was 1st rate. Again, I've run a lot of 70mm in my day...I've seen it and heard it quite a bit...both magnetic and digital. But putting the medium aside, The Sound of Music's 6-track mix was excellent. It was better, in my opinion, than Oklahoma's 6-track mix...but that is my opinion.

I don't know what your fixation is with surround and their use or lack thereof. If the sound designer wants to use them for effect or to convey realism or even atmosphere, so be it. If not...that is fine too. The movie is on the screen, not in the audience, I can certainly appreciate one that concentrates their sound in that area more than in the audience. Furthermore, back in the 50s/60s, aside from novelties like Fantasia, Surrounds meant turning all of the speakers on in the audience without directionality. It can be fine for adding ambiance but could be a distraction for adding a directional effect that can't have direction due to the nature of a mono surround track.
well excuse for me being a dick about my fixation with film sound ... [sheesh]

 |  IP: Logged
Mark Ogden
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 943
From: Little Falls, N.J.
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 02-18-2014 06:23 PM      Profile for Mark Ogden   Email Mark Ogden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Speaking of comparisons the Red Mysterium MX (digital) vs The Panaflex (35mm) is almost a joke. Run it up to 4:08, the close up of the eye is the best example of film killing digital!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OQ6hdyaNBw
The video is a crock of shit, Mark.

Whoever posted this to YouTube simply hijacked another person's video, which appears to be a legitimate Red one camera test using a variety of lenses and placed on-line in a non-gamma corrected, unsharpened state. Then they added bullshit captions and some mournful background music, and then over-sharpened the hell out of half of it hoping to dupe someone into believing it was film. I mean, c'mon, didn't the fact that the shot was exactly the same between the supposed two cameras tip you off?

Unbelievable.

 |  IP: Logged


All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3   
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
- Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.