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Topic: NEC900C V Chiriste Solaria One

Fevzi Genc
Film Handler

Posts: 5
From: Fethiye, Mugla / Turkey
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 02-22-2014 01:06 PM

We are planning to buy compact projector for our 5 small screens (max 6mt). Price and service quality are very similar. Which is the best solutions for us.

Your experiences and opinions will be most important thing for our final desicions.

Thanks,

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David Buckley
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 525
From: Oxford, N. Canterbury, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 02-22-2014 03:42 PM

I am also very interested in this, as it looks like we might get the opportunity to "go digital" - yay!

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 02-23-2014 07:56 AM

3D yes/no? At 6m, the NC900C might be a bit too much at the edge for 3D.

Both machines will certainly bring a very similiar image onto the screen - but their server/content storage system is very different. Maybe you dig into these differences first, as the NC900C is variable (either IMS, IMB, or HD-SDI/TLS), while the Solaria One has a single option (externally attached NAS/DAS).

From what I have seen on the forum, there seem to be or have been quite a few issues with the Solaria One, while I hear very few complaints about the NEC. Wether that's just my subjective impression or backed up by real statistics, who knows...

In general, Christies are great machine, but the single IMS option for the Solaria One, I don't know...

- Carsten

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006

posted 02-23-2014 09:52 AM

I work with several NEC and Christie systems.

My personal experience is that the Solaria 1 systems have been extremely 'buggy'
and have been a lot more tempermental (to put it politely) than the NEC's.

To be fair- - the Chrisite's are nice projectors. They put out a good picture.
Almost all the problems I've had to deal with are related to their IMB and NAS,
systems, and not the 'projector' performance itself.

In the just the past week-

> 1 system had audio/video/sync glitches to the point where a show got cancelled.

>The NAS on one system TOTALLY crashed on Thursday, putting that auditorium
out of commission for a full day until a new NAS could be shipped and installed.

>The Solaria system's I've worked with can ONLY handle ingest via USB, ports,
making the process take a lot longer. I'm not even sure you can install a
CRU bay on one of these sytems to speed up the ingest.

Two of the three theater owners who put these things in have, on more than one
occasion said to me "I wish we'd gotten something else".

The NEC/Dolbydigitalserverthingys (or NEC/GDC) systems I've worked with
have all been relatviely trouble free. That's been my experience.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-23-2014 10:16 AM

quote: Jim Cassedy
To be fair- - the Chrisite's are nice projectors. They put out a good picture.
Almost all the problems I've had to deal with are related to their IMB and NAS.

You mean the one thing they FORCE you take with it? That is something I really don't like is this business of having to take "the package" rather than allowing one to choose what they think is best for them.

The whole DCI thing was supposed to ensure one is NOT saddled with a proprietary package system. Why should one have to take a server along with a projector? Since Barco and NEC found a way to have anybody's IMB/IMS system work with their projector, so could have Christie (without adding $1 to the system).

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-23-2014 11:28 AM

Have installed 28 NC-900's so far and had only a couple lamp failures. A couple units now have over 2000 lamp on hours on them. The projector when it was new wasn't even buggy. It's not 100% ideal for all conditions because it can be too bright in flat for some installations with two lamps running and not bright enough with one running. You can't choose to run one lamp in flat and two in scope as was talked about when it was first released. But if you have an average 24 to 26' wide screen it's pretty hard to beat it.

For ~20 grand for the projector you can't really complain too much, it does it's job and has been reliable. It is the least expensive solution so far and it also draws the least amount of power if you use an IMS or GDC IMB. You'll find the current draw at typical lamp settings to be about 7.5 amps total running on 120 volts.

Mark

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-23-2014 12:28 PM

There is plenty to complain about on the NC900C and plenty to brag about. In my opinion, its color accuracy is WAY too wacky...any change in those lamps (and I mean any)...move the power by 1% and the color moves a bit dramatically. The lens accuracy is horrible...and I mean horrible. It can't hit its mark...ever and the adjustment is way too course to begin with. My limited experience with it has shown that one CAN get a really sharp picture out of it though the lens mount is a bit sloppy. The contrast is really bad on it. Very noticeably so.

Does all of this mean a hill of beans to the average patron? Probably not. They were never too fussy about color quality with film and that would change reel-by-reel, regardless of the equipment installed. Contrast is rather apparently low though...there are no "blacks" with this projector unless you put it on too big a screen. One is probably better off with a slightly gain screen just to hide its pathetic contrast. It will make it hot-spotty but this projector is definitely a trade off.

As Mark said, for something in the low $20Ks...it is in a price all to itself, for now. But it also does not perform like higher priced projectors...it definitely is a 2nd or 3rd tier projector but that may be all a particular theatre needs. It definitely is NOT for screening rooms. For a small multiplex theatre, it should do and the lamps can be changed by the non-technical. Speaking of which...you have to give them a minute or so to warm up before the show starts...and if you turn them off, you'll be waiting 90 seconds before turning them back on again.

One bad feature of this projector...even in "Standby" ...the fans still run as if the projector is on...so if you don't kill the power...your filters will be consumed during your "off" times. My guess is that they did that to keep some IMS systems cool. Too bad they didn't give the option to turn that off for those systems that don't need it or have a single fan that keeps the IMB/IMS cool at night.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 02-23-2014 12:45 PM

I have no experience with the Solaria, is the poor contrast a feature of 0.69" chips or just a NEC900 bad design?

Yes, high pressure mercury lamps will change colour temperature when the power is changed, but once you do a colour correction at that power level then it's stable.
Don't get me wrong, I would ban those lamps from Digital Cinema, but considering how the real world is working, a lamp which does not require alignment is worth a little colour inaccuracy.

I do like SONY's solution: some grilles blocking the light. You end up using the lamps at 100% and having the proper light in Flat (all grilles in) and in Scope (no grilles). And given the huge contrast if levels are a little higher than usual, that's perfectly fine.

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David Buckley
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 525
From: Oxford, N. Canterbury, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 02-23-2014 03:01 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
...it definitely is a 2nd or 3rd tier projector but that may be all a particular theatre needs

Certainly in our case, we are going into this eyes wide open, and accept that what we (hope we) can afford to do in a part time multi-use community facility will not be patch on what the multiplexes an hours drive away offer. Heck, they have auditoriums without windows!

quote: Steve Guttag
The whole DCI thing was supposed to ensure one is NOT saddled with a proprietary package system. Why should one have to take a server along with a projector?

Without disagreeing in any way, for the tiny operator, having a "one box solution" that just works is highly attractive. Being an IT professional, and having more than a passing familiarity with entertainment technologies, I have no worries about dealing with what is, in effect, an IT system, but not all of my co-vounteers are as comfortable with these technologies as I am...

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 02-23-2014 04:23 PM

quote: Marco Giustini
I have no experience with the Solaria, is the poor contrast a feature of 0.69" chips or just a NEC900 bad design?

NEC, Christie, Barco each may tweak their machines a little bit for brightness OR contrast, but in general the S2k chipset has a noticeable lower contrast than the 1.2" - just as the 0.98" performs slightly less than these. And because of the (same) higher pixel density, the 4k DLP contrast suffers considerably as well.

Surprisingly, even the new laser illuminated version of the NC900C, the NC1100L, so far is spec'd with the same mediocre 1600:1 - same chipset.

Solaria One+: >1900:1
Solaria One: >1700:1
Barco DP2k-10Sx: >1850:1
NEC NC-900C; 1600:1/1800:1 (depending on source)

With the average well lit movie, they still throw a nice image because of the DLP inherent high ANSI/InPicture contrast. But the blacks in darker scenes...

- Carsten

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-23-2014 04:39 PM

As for the "one box solution"...one can order Any of the "S2K" projectors with a server inside. Christie isn't offering anything special there. Furthermore, it doesn't take an IT professional to insert an IMB into a projector. If you can operate your hands...you can do it. Furthermore, one may have other servers in the larger theatres and one may want to "match" their "move over" houses. There is no reason to force one to use a particular server and there really isn't a benefit to it, unless you particularly like the Christie IMB and SMS that comes with it. Likewise for any of the servers, they all have their ups and downs.

Even if it is an "all-in-one" it is FAR from ready to run out of the box. So if it is a sales ploy...it is a deceptive one.

I would MUCH rather have server uniformity than be forced into an odd-ball server/SMS to get an all-in-one.

As I said, these projectors may be appropriate for some theatres but they are not equivalent to their bigger siblings in the .98" or 1.2" versions. It is more than just lumen output.

The NC900C at 1600:1 is probably a stretch.

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Tim OBrien
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Vassar, MI /USA
Registered: Jan 2010

posted 02-23-2014 07:11 PM

quote: Jim Cassedy
The Solaria system's I've worked with can ONLY handle ingest via USB, ports,
making the process take a lot longer. I'm not even sure you can install a
CRU bay on one of these sytems to speed up the ingest

The Christie IMB ingest port is a combination USB/eSATA which works with a CRU drive.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-23-2014 08:09 PM

Carsten,

All the small projectors represent one compromise or another. Thats what you get when you are down in the lower price range. These small projectors are really "Theater Saver Projectors" rather than actual projectors in my view. The theaters that are buying them would have othersise closed down for good had they not come along... at least thats how it is with many of my customers that bought them. If you want less compromise then spend the money and go for a .98" or even a 1.2" projector. Thereality is, you can only bounce so much light into and then back off of a given size surface and still hold contrast. You get diffusion occuring on the surface and window of the small dmd's as well as in the prism itself and the lens. It's amazing it is even as good as it is. I could easily live with the Barko or the NEC and I regularly quote both to customers. I won't touch the Christie because of it's fixed IMB.

Mark

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Tim OBrien
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Vassar, MI /USA
Registered: Jan 2010

posted 02-23-2014 09:45 PM

Mark, your comments puzzle me. You've bragged incessantly about the NC900C and now suggest that the S2K machines are not "actual projectors" at all. As I recall, the price differential between the S2K and .98" projectors was about $10k. Was this really a deal breaker for theatres already choking down a $35-$40k bill for conversion?

The S2K projectors were developed for smaller screens which perhaps could get by with a few less bells and whistles (Christie LampLoc for instance). I don't understand how a .69" DMD projecting on a 22' screen represents a huge compromise compared to a .98" projecting on a 40' screen. Isn't it all relative?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-24-2014 12:43 AM

$10K/screen adds up REAL fast when you don't have it!

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