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Author Topic: The latest "what is AMC doing wrong" query: high black levels William Kucharski Expert Film Handler Posts: 244 From: Louisville, Colorado, United States of America Registered: Oct 2012 posted 08-15-2014 03:27 PM                     I went to my local AMC last night and this particular theatre, while never the gold standard for projection, has Sony 4Ks that normally look pretty good. However, last night, something was very… off. All normal black areas projected throughout, including trailers, displayed black as sort of a mid-tone grey rather than the as near "off" as possible blacks I've seen these same projectors throw many, many times in the past. Of course the theatre manager denied anything was wrong, but presentation where it looks like a consumer projector with limited dynamic range is just weird coming from a Sony 4K. FWIW, the film in question was The Giver, but the same too-light black areas were seen in the trailers as well as the AMC spots pre and post-show. Any ideas what could be up? Those familiar with NTSC video would recognize the effect as much the same as when feeding "black is 7.5 IRE" video to a display that expects it to be 0. Could it be the projectors are set up to compensate for the light loss when showing 3D and are thus too bright when showing 2D? Or perhaps the last calibration was done with an older lamp and the projector was recently relamped?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-15-2014 04:55 PM                     Run.... It's a Sony!  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 08-15-2014 06:19 PM                     Bad mastering or faulty projector. Many will disagree but Sony machines have better blacks than DLPs, even after years. It's a fact, it can be measured. Whoever says the opposite has never seen a Sony or has only seen faulty ones. Sony have many downsides, but contrast ratio and black level are not one of those.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 08-15-2014 07:04 PM                     Well yeah, you can take any projector and if it isn't putting out a bright picture the blacks will be blacker. I've actually never been impressed with an image from any Sony. Sounds like there is something else going on with the machines William is referring to though since he said it used to be better.  |  IP: Logged Alan Gouger Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 501 From: Bradenton, FL, USA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 08-15-2014 07:11 PM                        I recently saw "Guardians of the Galaxy" in 3D at a AMC in Webster NY. They were using Sony SRX320s I was surprised how good contrast and black level appeared. I wasn't expecting much from the 320 knowing it is a generation older to the new 515. This AMC had the new motorized recliners.  |  IP: Logged Harold Hallikainen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 906 From: Denver, CO, USA Registered: Aug 2009 posted 08-15-2014 10:26 PM                        Are there automation cues for the motorized recliners? Harold  |  IP: Logged Andrew Thomas Master Film Handler Posts: 273 From: Pearland, TX, USA Registered: Jun 2012 posted 08-15-2014 11:36 PM                     I find the 320s to be supremely lacking in contrast and black levels, about the same as the .69 DLPs. The 515s are the new gold standard in contrast and black level to my eyes. I saw Chef a couple of months ago on a 320 and the image was very washed out.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 08-15-2014 11:57 PM                     Course, you can easily blame the washout due to the decaying LCoS chipset that Sony uses, where light passes through the chip and not reflected like the DLP setup. Only time you get a decent 3D presentation out of a Twin Lens Sony Baloney unit is when the bulb has just been changed...and that's usually a Philips XDC-4200S lamp. Give it a hundred hours and you have already lost 20 percent of your lumens, and three quarters of its life, the envelope is all but black and only one third of the available lumens are available. If Sony would pick up on BARCO's CLO system, these lamps may have some decent light output throughout the life of the lamp. But Sony's blast theirs hot from the beginning which causes them do decay quite readily.  |  IP: Logged Buck Wilson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 894 From: St. Joseph MO, USA Registered: Sep 2010 posted 08-16-2014 12:29 AM                     Why doesn't anyone rag on Regal like they do AMC on here? Haha  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 08-16-2014 04:09 AM                     Brad, Obviously I am comparing the systems when achieving the same brightness on screen. I said "black level" and "contrast". If you reduce the black level by reducing the brightness, the contrast ratio does not improve. Monte, I heard that too (decaying of the SXRD chips and high black level after a while) but it is simply not true. I've seen machines with 20.000hrs on them and the black level was still ok. Again, we can talk for days about downsides in a Sony machine, but picture quality is not within the list. Ok, it can't be bad mastering since trailers were affected too. If memory serves, range level can be set on the mediablock input too, and that could be set wrong. I'll check next time.  |  IP: Logged Jarod Reddig Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 513 From: Hays, Ks Registered: Jun 2011 posted 08-16-2014 04:09 AM                     It could be as simple as a bad calibration with the black level set way too high.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 08-16-2014 04:21 AM                     black level cannot be calibrated in a digital cinema projector (oh well, there is an option to input the black colour coordinates in DLP, not sure what they do). On a Sony you can choose the RGB level for DVI inputs and maybe for the server input as well - not 100% sure and it could be only with some sw versions, I'll check. If so, that could be the cause.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 08-16-2014 09:17 AM                     There is certainly a way to achieve this in the Sony setup software, but It's hard to imagine how this could have happened here, as this is a separate piece of software for the 320. It could of course be that there is a serious defect in the light engine. It's useless speculating. One could pinpoint the manager at the visible difference between two screens both using Sony and hope that he will be able to see and/or admit the difference as an issue, then give a call to service. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-16-2014 10:10 AM                     Marco, I agree they can do black. But black Isn't worth the expense and hassle of having to put up with Sony and a poor quality image over the long haul. I' sure they are lucrative sites to service though. Mark  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 08-16-2014 10:48 AM                     Mark, I still don't agree on the picture quality issues. Everything else, I'm not arguing. I don't meant to start a flame, but what is wrong in your opinion with SXRD's picture quality? We have assessed that black is not a problem. They are dimmer machines, sure. But as Dolby 3D, you just have to consider that when installing a big screen. Brightness is a limitation, but not an issue. What is wrong with the picture quality? I am genuinely asking, I am curious to know your opinion. Marco  |  IP: Logged

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