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Author Topic: Warren Grand Infinity Auditorium Sam Graham AKA: "The Evil Sam Graham". Wackiness ensues. Posts: 1431 From: Waukee, IA Registered: Dec 2004 posted 01-11-2015 06:45 PM                        At the request of Brad, Steven Guttag, and a Facebook friend who peppered me with DM's while I was experiencing explosive diarrhea in a Captain D's bathroom (oh wait, that was also Steven), I am creating a dedicated thread for discussion on Bill Warren's fabulous new multiplex in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. This is one of two "Grand Infinity" auditoriums in the building. Notice the screen with the deep curve. The red stuff is all dark during the feature. There's no accent lighting in the room at all. To give a bit better perspective, here's a shot from where I initially sat, I think the fifth row or so. My neck hurts. Projection is from a 4K laser unit mounted in the ledge of the balcony, so throw is from the middle of the auditorium. Steve's key questions were "how even is the lighting" and "what about the geometrics of the image". The lighting was pretty even, even sitting that close. But the picture bend was terrible from that close. The green band trailer notice looked like a warped smiley face. But if you moved further back, it was less of a problem. And that image was sharp. Very nice. You want to sit back further anyway to get the full Dolby ATMOS effect. So will my commute to see movies at a Warren be moving from Wichita to Tulsa? No. I prefer to sit closer and the 13th Avenue Warren's flat screens work for me. I'm also not really sold on Dolby ATMOS so far. But props for trying this. Go check it out if you can. Anyway...discuss.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 01-11-2015 07:44 PM                     I intend to check out the new Warren Broken Arrow location in the next few weeks. It all depends on the movie choices though. Something gives me the impression American Sniper won't be a very aggressive Dolby Atmos mix (I hope I'm wrong about that). Maybe Kingsman: The Secret Service will be worth the 200 mile drive. We'll see. But yeah, I obviously have some very mixed feelings about a deep curve screen approach like this, given the 'scope format has been shit upon big time by d-cinema. The current letter-boxing like HDTV approach sucks ass 100% and will give theater operators nothing but total incentive to build new theaters totally with common width screens where flat is bigger than scope. Just totally damned backwards. With 'scope already being terribly compromised in d-cinema a deep curve screen might only make matters worse. We'll just have to see about it though. I e-mailed Warren Theaters a couple different times asking questions about this theater. In both instances Bill Warren responded to my emails, which really surprised me. I figured if I received a response it would have come from someone on a lower rung of the ladder. That seemed pretty cool. When the Broken Arrow Warren first opened its web site page wasn't indicating if movies were being played with Dolby Atmos audio. I asked them to correct that and they did. I also asked if they were going to upgrade the Grand Auditoriums in their Wichita and Moore locations with laser projection and Dolby Atmos. Bill Warren simply said they're thinking about it. So I guess those upgrades may hinge on the success of the Broken Arrow Warren.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-11-2015 07:49 PM                     Then I think they failed. The idea of a Cinerama type screen IS to sit close to have that thing wrap around you such that you have to turn your head to see it all...just like in real life. As I figured, they are missing a key element..which is a lens that will distort the image such that it looks "normal" on the deep curved screen. With film, we mostly had that with the ISCO type "C" lenses...horizontal lines were pretty straight to the masking. Vertical lines would pincushion (progressively as you moved towards the sides of the image) but since the width was much larger than the height, it was really only objectionable in the corners. The Magna-Com65 would also do a decent job of creating a good "Flat" image on a deep curve screen. What should be done for DCinema, if this sort of design is to continue, is to design a purpose built lens that fits the image to the screen and only distort the image in the horizontal plane. Given that Warren is purpose building these theatres, the needed throw ratio(s) should be known. Furthermore, with an anamorphic lens one could have a fixed prime lens for both flat and scope. I personally think the concept shown hear has more merit than the "Escape" type theatre as the effect could apply to all features. Yes there are those that don't like the deep-curve screen but my 30+ years, I have found that the vast majority of people will flock to a theatre with one. You just don't get that effect in the home. However, you have to do it well. The image has to look as good as possible or it is just a gimmick.  |  IP: Logged Terry Lynn-Stevens Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1081 From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Registered: Dec 2012 posted 01-11-2015 08:39 PM                     What exactly is Warren trying to do with their curved screen?  |  IP: Logged Buck Wilson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 894 From: St. Joseph MO, USA Registered: Sep 2010 posted 01-11-2015 08:56 PM                     I don't hate the concept of a curved screen but I've never seen it done properly.(Never seen Cinerama) Even 90's era AMC Toris screens or whatever they're called drive me NUTS. Bottom center of image gets cut off, curved green bands and everything else. Looks so unnatural. I was not aware that the new Broken Arrow location was to have curved screens(even if only on the infinity auditoriums), I don't feel nearly so pressed to make it down there now. But I still will at some point. Bobby perhaps provide Mr. Warren the link to this thread/site after a while to give him some ideas on how to improve the situation and what the pros think... He obviously cares and to that I give him mad props. If I had a hero... It'd likely be him!  |  IP: Logged Sam Graham AKA: "The Evil Sam Graham". Wackiness ensues. Posts: 1431 From: Waukee, IA Registered: Dec 2004 posted 01-11-2015 10:30 PM                        quote: Buck Wilson Bobby perhaps provide Mr. Warren the link to this thread/site after a while to give him some ideas on how to improve the situation and what the pros think... He obviously cares and to that I give him mad props. You guys do anything that gets me kicked out of the Warren properties and there will be HELL TO PAY.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 01-11-2015 10:46 PM                     I would not be at all surprised if Bill Warren already knows about Film-Tech and its forum. With such a deep curve screen and a rather unique placement of the laser projector, it would only seem logical to guess there's some kind of unusual lens mounted on that projector -if not something completely custom built, perhaps an optic culled from a projection setup designed for curved screens, like D-150.  |  IP: Logged Terry Monohan Master Film Handler Posts: 379 From: San Francisco CA USA Registered: May 2014 posted 01-11-2015 10:55 PM                     Don't they make a corrective lens for deep curved screens to take out the bending of letters ect. I have seen this used in many deep curved screens and the lettering stays flat across the curved screen. TODD-AO had a special type of lens used in some theatres also. It was mainly for the projection booth that was from high up in the balcony shooting a image way down on a deep curved screen. It did a good job with the keystone effect.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-12-2015 06:23 AM                     At this point, there is nothing for DCinema that I've been told about or seen. Based on the description and conversation I had with Sam, the image is not being corrected on the screen. The image is indeed "bent." For everyone else besides DCinema, projectors are allowed to "warp" an image to make them look normal on a curved screen. DCinema prohibits that. So we are stuck with having a lens custom made. As stated above, there WERE lenses for film to compensate for a deep-curve screen...no, you can't just plop one of those on a DCinema projector.  |  IP: Logged Ian Freer Expert Film Handler Posts: 135 From: Wellington, New Zealand Registered: Oct 2003 posted 01-12-2015 01:23 PM                     Although I guess it would be expensive, surely Schneider or some one 'could' make custom lenses for this sort of installation? They have made lenses for Dome cinema installation from 4K DLP and on their website say they can supply with lens mounts for all three DLP cinema projector manufacturers...  |  IP: Logged Jarod Reddig Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 513 From: Hays, Ks Registered: Jun 2011 posted 01-12-2015 04:37 PM                     The place looks fantastic! Thanks for the pics Sam. I was in Broken Arrow last year about this time with my wife. I now have another reason to go back and check out the place. Ive always been a huge fan of Bill Warrens' theaters. Wish his Wichita, Kansas locations would get laser and Atmos.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 01-12-2015 04:50 PM                        To me the curve looks like D150. There are no pictures of the screen with the curtains open that I know of so I can only assume that's what it's like. With the D150 screen at the Continental in Denver, the top and bottom center of the image was indeed cut off. You'd have to frame a bit high on some movies with subtitles but usually it was OK (just very, very close to the edge). If you think of how the lens sees the screen, it sees it as a 2D bowtie shape. The aperture plate reflects that. That screen has been replaced with Regal's RPX nonsense and I have no idea if the new screen has a curve or not, but I assume the new one is flat. I do like how this new Warren auditorium has curtains. From what I can tell the stadium seating either seems to be non-existent or not extreme. This is also good. How is the sound in the auditorium?  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 01-12-2015 07:36 PM                     Warren's Grand Auditoriums (Grand Infinity in this case) all have standard sloped seating to accommodate balconies. The Grand Infinity houses in Broken Arrow are Warren's first Atmos installations, and they seem to imply through their web site that they're maxed out in terms of amplifiers and speakers. Not sure how one could confirm that just from visiting the theater. Here is a news story and video about the big curved screens and a look at the screen during installation.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 01-12-2015 08:47 PM                        Looking at the video the curve doesn't seem as extreme as this thread had led me to believe. It seems less curved than a D150.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-12-2015 08:50 PM                     Personally I do not like curved screens at all. A deep curved screen like this would look horrible in my opinion due to the geometric distortion of the image (unless there is something with the lensing that Christie/Warren has done that we don't know about). Then again I would take a curved screen ANY DAY before a screen without masking. That being said I don't think there is a single person that doesn't firmly agree with me when I state that Warren's use of actual curtains is a super class act.  |  IP: Logged

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