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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Author
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Topic: Digital IMAX LFE?
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Aron Toplitsky
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 113
From: Gardena, CA, USA
Registered: May 2012
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posted 03-11-2015 09:21 PM
Hello All,
This is my first post...
I’ve been experiencing something quite frustrating at my local digital IMAX Theater and wondering if someone can shed some light for me?
My local digital IMAX is run by an AMC in Torrance California. Every film I’ve experienced there, has sounded incredible! For several years, the low frequencies have been as powerful, distortion free and pulse pounding as they come! Ever since I saw Edge of Tomorrow in that theater, I’ve noticed the LFE is now mostly non-existent. I’ve heard rumors of films being mixed with high pass filtering, so I thought Edge of Tomorrow was one of those.
Since that film, I’ve seen three others, including most recently Chappie and they all sounded flat with almost no LFE. There are some moments where the bass kicks in, but nowhere near like before. It seems that only the LFE has been affected. The volume is still nice and strong, surrounds and high frequencies still sound great as well. I noticed the AMC Empire 25 in NYC (during a Man of Steel showing) also suffered from a lack of LFE. I’ve contacted IMAX about the NYC location and never heard back from them. I’m concerned they will not care about the CA location and let it go. I’ve also been in contact with management at the CA location and they say IMAX handles the settings.
It’s such a shame because the AMC in Torrance used to sound so incredible! What is with IMAX and their calibrations? Or is it just me?
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Aron Toplitsky
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 113
From: Gardena, CA, USA
Registered: May 2012
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posted 03-12-2015 01:02 AM
Wow you guys are awesome! I didn't expect such a timely response.
Terry, when I experienced this issue at the Empire 25 in NYC, I logged onto the IMAX website and clicked on the “email us” link. I have not been back to the Empire IMAX since June of 2012, but assumed nothing was done since I didn’t get a response. I do know that when I saw Man of Steel the second time at the Torrance CA IMAX, the LFE was much better, like night and day!
As for the current situation with the AMC in Torrance, I have only been in contact with management and haven’t contacted IMAX yet. What frustrates me is I’ve had a phone conversation around a month ago, with one of them (management) concerning this issue. All the possibilities you guys mentioned has crossed my mind.
This is not the first time I’ve heard IMAX having a strict quality control. If that’s the case, why do their theaters have issues? For example, another offender of this (for years) I’ve found to be the Sony Lincoln Square IMAX in NYC. I stopped going there years ago to avoid hearing a dead LFE track. I didn’t know at the time that I could contact someone. It was the same type of situation. Saw the 2009 Star Trek there and wasn’t impressed by the LFE. Then I saw it in LA at the former IMAX Howard Hughes Center and it just blew away Lincoln SQ. Keep in mind both were 15/70 presentations. Although what Brad is now saying TRULY disturbs me and I hope is not the case! They will never get another dime from me if this theater continues to sound the way it does!
Mike you are absolutely right in how ridiculous it is for no one to notice the problem or even figure it out. This is one of the reasons why I dislike going to theaters. Sorry to say, but if I had the money to really hook up a home theater, I’d NEVER go to the movies again. The sound is usually not set properly. This same theater did a quality check a few years back due to my complaints about The Avengers being played too low. Turns out most of their auditoriums had been turned down and never reset. They explained how most patrons can’t handle the fader levels set near seven and got lots of requests to turn it down. They said they also never turn it up that high out of fear of blowing speakers. Even though the fader wasn’t set to seven when corrected, it was a huge improvement. I’m just getting really tired of dealing with this issue at different theaters! Although to this theater’s (AMC Torrance) credit, I will say management has been great at listening to my concerns. Sometimes though, I feel like they think I’m abnormal for noticing.
Anyhow, thanks again for sharing your thoughts. I welcome more thoughts on this. Any contacts I can forward this to would be appreciated. Here’s a thought and probably a conversation for another forum, I notice this kind of similar thing with some Atmos set-ups as well. Sometimes it seems like the overall volume is turned down and not just an LFE problem.
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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 03-12-2015 09:03 AM
Aron,
Hopefully, you can get an official response from IMAX and/or AMC about the matter.
Additionally, would you be willing to post a message on our Reader Comments page for the theater?
http://www.bigscreen.com/Marquee.php?theater=10118&view=comments
(Note: We're an independent publication and not directly associated with IMAX or AMC)
It's possible that other people are noticing the issue as well, but aren't saying anything, or once they know about it, they'll notice and say something as well. If/when IMAX/AMC addresses the issue, you could post a follow-up, and that will show people how responsive they are, which would be a win-win scenario.
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Aron Toplitsky
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 113
From: Gardena, CA, USA
Registered: May 2012
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posted 03-13-2015 01:10 AM
Scott, yes I’d be willing to post on that site, but I just want to wait until I hear back from the manager. If I don’t then I will do what I can so IMAX is made aware.
Unfortunately now that I think about it, my last few Digital IMAX experiences have been quite weak in the lower frequencies. I saw the second Hobbit film at one of the top AMC theaters in Los Angeles, known as the Century City 15, and the sub frequencies were weak. Earlier last year, saw Godzilla at the brand new 900 seat TCL IMAX Chinese theater. It was once again, a weak low frequency presentation. Two weeks prior I’d seen Godzilla in their Atmos auditorium and the sound was just absolutely jaw dropping! The lows were so powerful, it was as if the theater was being pulverized when the LFE kicked in during certain scenes. And yet there was no distortion whatsoever! Those MUTOS were almost frightening to listen to! Okay to be fair, Atmos and IMAX Digital use different technology and it's a different mix, but I personally think there is NO excuse for a 900 seat IMAX theater, to not even compare to the Atmos presentation!
And I don’t mean to go off on a tangent here, but while I’m on the topic of the TCL Chinese IMAX Theater, I never understood how they were able to promote Interstellar as a 15/70 presentation when their screen didn’t seem to be nothing like a true IMAX 15/70 size screen?
Anyhow, with all of that said in terms of the low frequencies, could this be a new trend for IMAX, where they are filtering them during playback, perhaps to appease those who can’t handle it? It’s like Marcel said…
“So, maybe they're acting on patrons complains by turning down the volume? Or maybe someone sued them because of hearing damage inflicted by their overdriven volume levels?”
I’d love to find out if this is in fact, what IMAX is doing. If they are, it's very unfortunate and I will never pay for an IMAX presentation again!
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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012
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posted 03-13-2015 01:25 AM
quote: Carsten Kurz
I'm sure IMAX uses the discrete LFE channel from 5.1 soundtracks just like every other cinema.
quote:
I’d love to find out if this is in fact, what IMAX is doing. If they are, it's very unfortunate and I will never pay for an IMAX presentation again!
That is unfortunate that you will never see an IMAX presentation again, but to each his own.
I know a lot people on here have their issues with IMAX and If anyone is doubting whether IMAX XENON DIGITAL uses a 5.1 system with a sub-bass system, lets get the facts out in the open.
1. IMAX does use a 5.1 soundtrack for IMAX Digital
2. The .1 is a sub bass channel
3. The 5.1 soundtrack is re-mixed for IMAX use.
The information is freely available, its patented, its part of SMPTE, there is no hiding behind anything.
For those who are interested, the following is part of the patent document ..
The theatre sound system is setup with a loudspeaker configuration as illustrated in FIGS. 9 a and 9 b. FIG. 9 a is a plan view of the loudspeaker positions in a converted theatre and FIG. 9 b is a front view of the loudspeakers behind the screen in a converted theatre. There are 5 loudspeakers 101, 102, 103, 104, and 105, each driven from a separate audio source, and each with appropriate amplification and equalization. There is a 6th Sub-Bass Loudspeaker assembly 106 consisting of several sub-woofer elements grouped together that re-produce the low-frequency sound derived from the 5 audio channels. Powered with sufficient amplification these loudspeakers provide realistic sound levels for low-frequency sounds such as rocket launches, earthquakes, and explosions. Each audio channel is fed uncompressed digital sound with a resolution of 16 bits or greater from the Digital Sound Reproducer. The Digital Sound Reproducer is normally positioned in the sound rack 120 in the projection booth.
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