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Author Topic: Warning! Barco touchpanel firmware 5.0.12 Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 07-30-2015 08:07 AM                     This version has a serious bug where you can not enter a new lamp serial number. The onscreen keyboard will not open when the (new) lamp change window is active: if you open the keyboard first it will not enter serial number data. Thare are also a bunch of changes to macro editing with left & right eye MCGD files available that are pretty much just confusing. To downgrade to 4.9.21 in "DC Update Companion" you need to use "custom" and select the version. Auto update will finish in around 30 seconds and report that 4.9.21 has been installed... but it hasn't.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 07-30-2015 03:44 PM                     Thanks Dave, I too noticed the same confusion on MCGD files.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-30-2015 03:47 PM                     Thanks for the heads up on this one! While I have updated to 5.0.12 on some of the PCs (both Linux and Windows), I have not updated any touchpanels since there seemed to be no benefit unless you are running the ICMP. As for the left-eye, right-eye. That whole thing started in ICP 4.0 and in TI speak they are 1 and 2. Whether you are using them or not, they may very well be loading. (MCGD and TCGD)...check the Diagnostics>Active Files to see just what is currently being used. Naturally, they only really apply to 3D that you'd have both.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 07-31-2015 03:21 PM                     Steve, The same behaviour is with the PC version. Version 4.x uses a single MCGD (which could have been 'stereo' if you wanted). If you inspect an existing macro with version 5, it will list the MCGD file as "Right Eye MCGD". Does that mean that the Left Eye gets no correction? Not sure, so for the time being I have notified Barco and downgraded to 4.9!  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-31-2015 05:57 PM                     They are merely identifying what has been happening behind the scenes. MCGD_1 is Right Eye and that is what is used in a single MCGD system. For 3D, I have been loading the both MCGDs anyway just to ensure that nothing is left to chance.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 07-31-2015 06:22 PM                     Well, that is confusing. How do I possibly know that if I select the Right Eye MCGD only I am actually correcting both eyes?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-01-2015 04:13 PM                     The MCGD "issue" is a non-issue...just a change. For the following what is said for the MCGD applies to the TCGD and Gamma. Whether you are using one set of files or 2 is determined by the Input file. All Barco has done has added the "2D" MCGD file and the LEFT/RIGHT MCGD files. You could argue that if they didn't switch their 3D macros so that one is calling the Right Eye MCGD you'd find it odd that your 3D files now sad 2D MCGD. We could all argue that it might have been less confusing for all if they stayed consistent and just called the 2D MCGD "Single MCGD" But okay...we don't get to make that call, just complain and suggest. Note what is said here applies to ALL DLP projectors running ICP version 4.0 or greater. The Input file selects the input and give the option of single or dual color correction: Inside the ICP it looks a little more crude but you can see what is going on I've clicked on the MCGD portion labeled CSC P7 (Color Space Correction) and you can see one has the choice of "1", "2" or "1&2" Note the Gamma (LUT-DG) and the Color Look Up Table (LUT-CLUT) all have the same single/dual options: What you don't get because nobody explains it is that Right-Eye and "1" are the same. Only if you were to play with the dual color correction and change one eye and then look in the ICP to see what changed would you see. However, regardless of if you are using single or dual, the ICP is handling both but only looking at one unless you specify it to look at 2. It was TI's choice to let "1" be "Right" in a 3D application. If you look at the active files even during a 2D preset (you can get to them either in Communicator (Diagnostics>Actual>Active or via the ICP program: Again, if the input is only set to look at "1," "2" is ignored. So your hot an bothered by the "Right Eye" MCGD when you are using a single color correction: You can still put a 2D command in a 3D preset: It doesn't seem to stop you. Still confusing I guess since it could have just been labeled "single" instead of 2D but then I guess "single" has no meaning for 2D. You can't please everyone, I guess. Again, I consider this aspect a non-issue but you are welcomed to complain to Barco and see what happens! Alternately, you can color correct both eyes and for Dolby 3D put both eyes in there but set both to Nominal so you KNOW you've set both to the same. Edit... So I just downloaded the Barco Communicator manual...wow! They do tell you that Right is 1 and Left is 2. And now within the projector it is possible to create custom TCGDs to compensate for luminance variances. That is, you can now do full color correction on each eye as well as full luminance correction so both eyes match. In short, you need not use the mediablock of the server to do a full Dolby 3D color correction and thus do everything in-house. This would also apply to any consumer 3D formats that you might be able to use via DVI ports too. This has to be the reason they want to move away from 1-2 to calling them out as either 2D or Left-Right. If you never had the prior version, this would make more sense...if you are coming from the past...it is a change you have to get used to. Quite interesting.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 08-02-2015 04:08 AM                     I never complain about changes. I complain on unannounced ones, non-documented ones. I'll have a look at the manual. My point is that when I reported the 'issue' Barco replied "it must be a bug". Then I downgraded. I heard that v5 would allow for luminance correction. I just would expect to find something on the release note, that's it. I will download and diligently study the manual as you suggest. What is that "4 quadrant" checkbox which I never noticed? The ability of colour correcting the picture taking 4 different readings? Thanks Steve. Edit: manual downloaded. Interesting indeed, even though I was hoping it would be a little more straightforward. Still I cannot find a reference that says that "if you only use 3D Right eye MCGD you are correcting both eyes". To be honest, considering you then have to amend all 3D macros with 4 new items, I am not sure this is faster than a Dolby3D calibration, where you just leave everything on "Nominal". Also, you would still have to adjust the 3D settings in the mediablock to activate that little ghostbusting needed for Dolby 3D. And finally, I would still expect a little brightness difference between a server pattern and a projector pattern, so I would still confirm my brightness by running a server pattern. That said, it is interesting and welcome indeed - and mainly designed for dual projectors. I'll test it when I have a chance.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-02-2015 11:01 AM                     Marco, "Right Eye" macro only applies to BOTH if you set your INPUT to "Single (Default." Or "Single (No Color Wheel)" Clearly, they think one should do the color correction in the projector now. Again, this would really affect NEW installations since existing ones are already done and you might never notice that internally, Barco changed the MCGD name. But here is a CLEAR advantage to doing the color correction in the projector...back ups. How hard is it to make a Barco clone or restore from a clone. Now compare that to a mediablock correction. The mediablock correction save files can be done (and I do them) but they are more of a challenge, depending on the server and mediablock as well as reloading an existing saved file. Conversely, the MCGD/TCGD files come along for the ride in a Barco clone. I haven't tried making my own TCGDs with Communicator so I don't know if they are or if Communicator 5 will always copy the active TCGDs but the MCGDs definitely do. As such one can leave the mediablock settings at the default (no correction but does have some negative coefficients). I also have "Clean" versions of them for Dolby if I need to load them in remotely . I absolutely agree that changes like this should be in the Release Notes. Note, this would not be the first time Tech support were not completely aware of recent changes. A fellow tech recently loaded Christie 4.3 onto a projector and caused a problem with the touchpanel. First, tech support informed him that 4.3 didn't exist or was posted (it was and I have a copy too) and then seemed completely unaware of a Christie Tech Support Bulletin that described the very problem that resulted and how to fix it. Instead, Tech Support said he needed a new TPC or possibly an SD since they were out of warranty. I believe "Quad" mode would be if you have a 4K system and have a quad HDSDI input module (available on all three DLP projectors).  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 08-02-2015 11:38 AM                     I was thinking of back-ups as well. We had the 'how do I save a backup from the mediablock' conversation in the past! That said, again, one has to set the ghostbusting in the mediablock as well. Not a big deal and it's a 'one off' (till you do a clean install) but it should be better documented. So from now on a no-colorwheel 3D correction will use the RightEye MCGD. I have installed 4-SDI boards on 4K machines and cannot remember that option. On a separate note, what happened to the Christie PCF (do I remember correctly?) which was the ability of creating an MCGD taking 4 different readings?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-02-2015 12:27 PM                     The Dolby mediablocks come with the standard presets in them (no color correction, level correction and with the proper negative coeff) so even a clean install should come out right. As for no-colorwheel, you can use the 2D correction if you don't remember to use Right-Eye and you are welcomed to use both eyes for all 3D though I've found that Real-D and Master Image do not introduce any significant color shift to worry about. As such, your normal 2D color correction should work well enough. Note, too, I agree that it is best to use the server as your color source as that is the only way to include the entire signal path in the test. In fact, this how the standard is being written. It isn't as easy but it is the best way.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 08-02-2015 03:44 PM                     Then Barco should have "converted" old macros so the single 3D colour correction should have been a 2D one. And I too agree polariser-based systems do not really require a dual-3D correction. I find the Right eye thing just confusing. You're right, the Dolby mediablock comes with the proper Dolby3D coefficients - I was mixing up with RealD. Yes, using the server is the proper way but I am curious if we could achieve better results with the ICP. Dolby correction is usually not bad but sometimes the proper colours cannot be achieved. My experience with Doremi colour correction is limited but showed very bad results. So, I'll be happy to test and see how it works! Anyway thanks for your help. Much quicker and detailed than Barco  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-09-2015 10:24 AM                     Gee, we don't seem these sort of bugs in NEC firmware.... Mark  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 08-09-2015 03:10 PM                     Correct, what you see is just a grey screen.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-10-2015 04:29 AM                     You don't even get Macros with NEC firmware...or a touchpanel, for that matter...I'll have to check but you might not be able to easily implement an on-board dual-eye color correction in the NEC though one should be able to since it is a function of the ICP itself. Thus far, the only legitimate bug I've heard on this thread is the one that started it. The one regarding functionality on the touchpanel itself.  |  IP: Logged

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