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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » THIS is why the exhibition industry is fading...literally (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: THIS is why the exhibition industry is fading...literally
Arnold Chase
Film Handler

Posts: 41
From: West Hartford, CT United States
Registered: Nov 2013


 - posted 09-27-2015 10:48 PM      Profile for Arnold Chase   Email Arnold Chase   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Every Sunday night I get together with a group of local guys to see the Sci-Fi and Action/Adventure films that our wives will never go to. Tonight our group went to the Bow-Tie theater in Hartford, CT to see Black Mass. As soon as the trailers started, we all turned to each other to say, "Does that picture look really dim to you?"

I obviously know what a 7 fl image is supposed to look like, and my best estimate is that what was presented was around 1 or 2 fl. Scenes that were in bright sunlight were hardly there, and almost everything in interior shots was gone. In addition, there was almost no contrast to any image. One of the guys left to report the issue, and he came back with the manager who told us that they were "working on the problem", and then left. As the second trailer played with the same pathetic quality, our entire group decided to leave the theater.

The manager was in the lobby, and suggested that we see another film, but the only title that was starting around that time received a 38% positive on "Rotten Tomatoes", so we asked for a refund. Since I am a trained Christie tech, I inquired as to specifically what the problem was. The manager informed me that the projector in that house was a "really old" projector, and something had broken in the lamp-house which needed replacement parts, but they were having a tough time getting them.

When someone in our group asked him why they would still sell tickets to a crippled showings, he said that the ticket people "should have told the customers there was a problem". The ticket people immediately said to him that they were never told that there was a problem, and he did not respond.

This is so wrong on many levels, as they would be hard pressed to make their movie-going experience any worse than it was. To allow this to go on for an extended period of time is inexcusable. BTW, this is the same theater that also had a dead center dialog channel out in one of their houses with for at least three months. I attended a showing in that house, and the only dialog anyone could hear was from what leaked out of the left and right speakers.

Bow-Tie ought to be ashamed of themselves for doing their best to hasten the day when theatrical exhibition ceases to exist, because the home experience is SO much better.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-27-2015 10:56 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well the home experience is SO much better than that Bow Tie theatre. There are still 35,000 other screens, most of which are probably better.

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Pravin Ratnam
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 844
From: Atlanta, GA,USA
Registered: Sep 2002


 - posted 09-27-2015 11:26 PM      Profile for Pravin Ratnam   Email Pravin Ratnam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Picture dimness is a major problem. The worst is when it is 25% off or so. That is hard to make a case for because you know something is off, but not enough to make an easy case to the manager. The times I complained to a manager, i got nothing but a "we will look into it" response. It has happened at almost every movie chain i have beeen to - regal AMC. Didnt matter.

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Arnold Chase
Film Handler

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From: West Hartford, CT United States
Registered: Nov 2013


 - posted 09-27-2015 11:59 PM      Profile for Arnold Chase   Email Arnold Chase   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Pravin Ratnam
Picture dimness is a major problem. The worst is when it is 25% off or so.
I would have tolerated a 25% REDUCTION. This was a case of far less than 25% of the lamps TOTAL brightness. You couldn't dial down a lamp that low normally. I think they (as is their norm) ran a lamp until it exploded and destroyed the mirror, and then continued to run with a partial or missing mirror.

Imagine watching a scene and trying to figure out what you just saw.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

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From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 09-28-2015 12:45 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've seen similar things happening during presentations. Suddenly the image went from normal to dark gray on light gray. Scenes in daylight looked like being shot during full moon and dark scenes ending up being all dark grey with hot spots of light grey.

In this case it was a Barco projector and it had a red tail light going (projection booth here is an open affair and you can see the projectors in the lobby, those projectors probably have a good coating of popcorn oil going inside them).

But people are just zombies. I was the only one who actually left to complain, most people seemingly didn't notice it. But they didn't even try to fix it: Sorry, no techs around. Money back? The movie is still running, isn't it..?

I still remember back when I actually worked as part-time projectionist. A colleague of mine messed up a build job and ended up mixing reels. I guess he was drunk, because the credits ended up somewhere in the middle and it was my job to run the "premiere"...

People just left when the credits started after about an hour and a few minutes. I was working in the lobby when people suddenly streamed out of the still dark theater. They complained about it being a silly movie and being far too short, but in the end we received ZERO complaints...

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Leo Enticknap
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From: Loma Linda, CA
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 - posted 09-28-2015 12:47 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Given that d-cinema xenons are more expensive and have a shorter life than their 35mm predecessors (based on the ones we use, I'd say very roughly around $2.50 per hour for digi vs. $1.50 for film, excluding the electricity cost), there was always the risk that this would happen. Even in the film days, the less, shall we say, fussy houses running their bulbs until they either blew up or flickered like the proverbial candle was a well-known problem.

Given that the collateral damage from an explosion in a digital lamphouse is likely to be a lot more expensive (reflectors cost more and the space more confined, with more components closer to the bulb), plus the control software in digital projectors having nag features to discourage the overrunning of bulbs, I'd have hoped that the problem would reduce, and maybe it has. But I'm not surprised that it still exists.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

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From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
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 - posted 09-28-2015 12:48 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had a similar issue go with a Barco: Light dimming badly.

When the installer attaches the cathode adapter to the bulb, it's extremely important that the allen set screw is snugged down to make solid contact with the cathode of the bulb, for threading the adapter to the bulb doesn't secure total metal to metal contact.

What happens if that set screw isn't snugged down, it heats up the focus assembly of the module to where it will destroy that entire assembly and cable.

A replacement back end assembly is needed for repair.

Wonder if the installer ever shown these people how to do filters on a BARCO, which is the easiest to do and to maintain since they're washable filters.

Wonder if the Bowtie uses Sony units. Things love to overheat and bulbs go black well before warranty hours.

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Mark Ogden
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Little Falls, N.J.
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-28-2015 06:24 AM      Profile for Mark Ogden   Email Mark Ogden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bow Tie went with Christie Solarias. They drop a lot of money into the NYC/Manhattan locations that they acquired from Clearview (a REAL bunch of bottom-dwellers) but out in the 'burbs it is hit and miss. A lot of the screens they picked up were horribly twinned/tripled/quaded former single screen theaters. There's one screen near me (#4 at the Bellevue in Montclair, NJ) that has the most laughably keystoned image i've ever seen. They still run a better ship than their predecessors, though, but in some ways I think they are in over their heads.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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From: Lawton, OK, USA
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 - posted 09-28-2015 09:04 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Pravin Ratnam
That is hard to make a case for because you know something is off, but not enough to make an easy case to the manager. The times I complained to a manager, i got nothing but a "we will look into it" response.
In a lot of big chain theaters the manager is almost powerless to do anything about it even if he cares about good show quality. The home offices of these theater chains are very much into penny pinching everything possible. They staff as few people as possible, even if you have a 20 minute line for popcorn. They defer maintenance on theater equipment and have as few techs as possible touring the locations in their circuit.

I've seen more than my share of dim d-cinema movies lately and suspected the theater was trying to squeeze extra life out of their lamps to save a few bucks. I think it adds to my suspicion of theaters driving customers to their higher priced fake large format screens. If you spend $16 for a ticket, instead of $9, you'll get a bright picture and surround sound turned up to a properly dynamic level instead of TV speaker volume.

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Ken Lackner
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From: Atlanta, GA, USA
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 - posted 09-28-2015 09:32 AM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Arnold Chase
I obviously know what a 7 fl image is supposed to look like, and my best estimate is that what was presented was around 1 or 2 fl.
Um. You do realize that 7fL is half of the standard, right?

quote: Arnold Chase
I think they (as is their norm) ran a lamp until it exploded and destroyed the mirror, and then continued to run with a partial or missing mirror.
I'm pretty sure that's not possible. The reflector in all digital projectors is glass and when a lamp explodes, the reflector is completely destroyed. What IS possible, and I have seen it with just about every brand of projector at some point, is the assembly that adjusts the lamp position has failed in some manner and so the operator cannot bring the lamp into proper position to get enough light. It is quite likely this is the part the manager was referring to.

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Mitchell Dvoskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1869
From: West Milford, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 09-28-2015 01:14 PM      Profile for Mitchell Dvoskin   Email Mitchell Dvoskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
> Tonight our group went to the Bow-Tie theater in Hartford

There is the problem!

I thought Clearview was bad, but at least when Cablevision owned them they had a free movie night each week and discounts the rest of the time for Cablevision subscribers.

Once Bow-Tie took over it went from bad to unwatchable. All the Bow-Tie locations around here are former Clearview locations so I can't say how their original theatres were run, but around here people will drive 20 miles out of their way to avoid them.

I would not judge all theatres by the way one company is run.

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Arnold Chase
Film Handler

Posts: 41
From: West Hartford, CT United States
Registered: Nov 2013


 - posted 09-28-2015 01:32 PM      Profile for Arnold Chase   Email Arnold Chase   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Ken Lackner
Um. You do realize that 7fL is half of the standard, right?

Yes. I was using the 3D standard for a reference point which is considered by many to be too dim to begin with.

If you saw the picture, you'd agree that it was not just a lamp misaligned, but a uniform very dim grayness that was unmatched by anything I've ever seen.

If this projector was one of that theater's original DCI units (the theater was originally a Crown theater), then it was probably a Christie CP2000-ZX.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

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From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
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 - posted 09-28-2015 02:02 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What makes it really bad is that, were we used to pick on "booth monkeys" in the film days where they were, min wage, floor staff employees and giving us bad presentations and the similar.

Now, with digital, it's all pointing towards the management team that used to make the floor staff do these duties and now having to do something they didn't have to do prior...and they really hate it.

Definitely got them out of their comfort zone.

-Monte

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Ken Lackner
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From: Atlanta, GA, USA
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 - posted 09-28-2015 02:16 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Arnold Chase
I was using the 3D standard for a reference point which is considered by many to be too dim to begin with.
Why would use use the standard 3D light level as a reference point for a 2D presentation?

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Marco Giustini
Film God

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From: Reading, UK
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 - posted 09-28-2015 02:26 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
7fL is the 3D standard adopted in wonderland!

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