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Author Topic: Volume automation Gronw Roberts Film Handler Posts: 60 From: Y Felinheli, Gwynedd, Wales Registered: Oct 2015 posted 02-16-2016 09:37 AM                     I decided to automate the volume change between the adverts/trailers and main feature yesterday so I had a look at the Macro Editor for the Doremi and found the audio volume option. The problem I'm having is that I only have options for one decibel incriments. We usually play the adverts at 3.2 db and the film at 3.8 db but I can't see a way to automate that. It won't let me type it in either. Any ideas? The sound processor is a Dolby CP750. Thanks.  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 02-16-2016 11:23 AM                     Assuming the installer networked the CP750 with the Doremi (why anyone doesn't do this is beyond me?!) you can send the CP750 commands to go to whatever level you like. There is a command library available for the CP750 to make this even simpler.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-16-2016 12:30 PM                     The Dolby CP750 doesn't use a dB scale on its volume so I'm confused as to why one would use it on the server since the two will not match up.  |  IP: Logged Jay Wyatt Film Handler Posts: 33 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2015 posted 02-16-2016 12:33 PM                    Pete's got the right idea. Send telnet commands to the CP750 for each cue. Port is 61408 Command For Trailer: cp750.sys.fader 32 For Movie: cp750.sys.fader 38  |  IP: Logged Gronw Roberts Film Handler Posts: 60 From: Y Felinheli, Gwynedd, Wales Registered: Oct 2015 posted 02-16-2016 02:20 PM                     Thanks guys. The db thing is my mistake, sorry about that. I just don't get why I can't create a Macro for 3.2 and 3.8. Surely I should just be able to type those figures in?  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 02-16-2016 03:37 PM                     The Doremi allows for some attentuation and some minor gain. I don't have the exact selection of numbers in my head, but by any means, they have nothing in common with your CP750 fader setting. What you should do is to set the CP750 to a level that is maybe 3-6dB too hot. Then use the Doremi Gain feature to adjust to your chosen level. That way you can also play features at a decent level that are mixed too soft. But before you resort to the Doremi internal gain feature, find out wether the CP750 is properly configured as a device on the Doremi, so you can control the processor directly, as that is the best way to do it. Goto device manager and tell us which devices are configured there. You should see a projector, maybe IMB, subtitle engine, and hopefully a CP750. If you don't see a CP750, ask you installer. You should also check wether a network cable is plugged into your switch and your CP750. I am always puzzled how many installs actually lack the ability to control volume from the server... - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Gronw Roberts Film Handler Posts: 60 From: Y Felinheli, Gwynedd, Wales Registered: Oct 2015 posted 02-16-2016 04:10 PM                     Device Manager says we have Certaninty, CP750, Dolby DFC100, and the Projector.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 02-16-2016 05:41 PM                     Alright, then start Macro Editor and see which macros are available for the CP750. I assume you do have macros to switch e.g. the CP750 from NonSync to Digital/Doremi within a playlist? These would use the same device/interface to control the CP750. You should be able to find fader commands as well. Doremi supplies an automation library for the CP750 that contains all these commands. I would assume your tech installed that library and all these macros are available. But it may be he created the CP750 device from scratch and only created a minimum set of macros for format changes. If you have the necessary password, it is easy to create a few fader cues as well. You wouldn't need the whole range from 0 to 10, just a few around your standard level. You would name them yourself according to the fader setting they produce, e.g. 'Fader 3.8', 'Fader 3.9', etc. In that case, they would reflect the same level as your CP750 display. You probably feel uncomfortable to fiddle around with some of these settings at first, but being able to create your own macros is very useful and is actually fun. Just take a while to understand where to look and what to do until you feel safe to alter things. There is not much that can go wrong. Of course, if possible, it is always good to talk to your tech first. Then for your learning curve, it is better to do it yourself. Come back and tell us how you are getting along. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 02-18-2016 02:26 PM                     Could this also work with GDC equipment with the 750 and 850ATMOS units? thx - Monte  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 02-18-2016 03:59 PM                     You mean that currently you can not control your CP750 and 850 volume/fader setting from your GDC server through cues/playlist? - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Lindsay Morris Expert Film Handler Posts: 233 From: Darlington, WA, Australia Registered: Sep 2002 posted 02-18-2016 10:29 PM                     From what I am reading does that mean most more recent digital setups simply cannot include volume cues throughout a playlist to ensure nice even volume for the entire show??? I thought I had gone to heaven when at the digital conversion I went thru last season I discovered that with a CP650 and a DSP100 I could set every film clip volume so that each playlist came out without either blasting the customers ears off OR being so quiet that low level dialogue was impossible to discern. After the 35mm days of riding the volume control thru each & every trailer & advert until the feature got on screen...which was always a pain..Digital gear was brilliant..well at least what I got was. I just cannot believe that more recent stuff has removed that function...maybe it IS so as my recent experiences at a couple of local complexes where the preshow stuff was stressing the sound system AND my ears which are damn near deaf anyway were most uncomfortable. Then the feature came on so low that I had to hold a hand around one ear for much of the dialogue for the entire movie. I went out and tackled one of the floor staff and they just shrugged and said that's the way it is. I noticed others much younger than I in the auditorium also holding hands up to ears as well. Lindsay  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 02-19-2016 02:52 AM                     Lindsay, no that's not the case. There is no reason why fader level cannot be cued throughout a playlist.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-19-2016 03:32 AM                     One thing Dolby was unique on was with the DSS line of servers connected to a CP650, 750 or 850, one could create any volume cue. That is, add the volume cue and then, at that time specify the volume desired from the entire range of 0.0 to 10. What MOST servers can do at this time is allow the installer to create volume cues of specific volumes. Remember, things tend to get more general because you don't have this lock on server/sound processor...you are just sending out cues based on specific processor command sets. For instance with GDC, you can specify your sound processor from the known ones (or make your own device entirely)...the GDC known processors will automatically have the range of known volumes (be they the stupid dB scale or 0-10 of the specific processor). However, in order to provide usable cues to the end-user...you need to THEN create automation cues for all volumes you think you might need. Sure, you COULD create 101 of them so you have 0.0 to 10 (or -80dB to +10dB) but that would be a bit of work (at least the first time) when most of the volumes in that range would never be used plus it would make the cue list insanely long when adding cues to a show. I tend to provide, in roughly .25 increments, volumes from 3.5 to 7.0...still a bit a list but it seems to cover most all needs. I've done this uniformly regardless of server brand or TMS brand (or sound processor brand) so even if there are mixed servers and sound processors, a common set of cues can be used on all screens. So yes, it can be done...just not as "built-in" as a Dolby server (DSS line) talking to a Dolby sound processor. In the Film days... you did have Panastereo/Panalogic...via their CA2000 automation you could definitely have volume cues as could/can Pennywise...they even made the DF1 box so you could have volume cues to analog processors like the CP50-CP65. So it was done back then too (even the Eprad CNA automations had a volume control option for the analog processors)...so it WAS done...just not as common.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 02-19-2016 03:59 AM                     quote: Lindsay Morris From what I am reading does that mean most more recent digital setups simply cannot include volume cues throughout a playlist to ensure nice even volume for the entire show??? If systems can not do that, it's not a feature missing, but an installer who either used a shortcut during installation or simply did not bother to teach it to the projectionist. There are some systems still using e.g. a CP500 + external D/A. Then if the server does not implement an internal/digital volume control (like Doremis do), you may indeed be stuck with a system that does not allow cue based volume changes, because it is complicated to add that to a CP500 (though not impossible). The bad thing about these setups is, to avoid complaints, they will usually run their level too low for all features... - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Lindsay Morris Expert Film Handler Posts: 233 From: Darlington, WA, Australia Registered: Sep 2002 posted 02-19-2016 04:04 AM                     Seems like the Dolby system had it really sorted as I was blown away at the ease at which I could get exact Volume settings for every darn clip. When I had set a playlist up I would run the entire thing thru into about 10mins of the feature watching my VU meter on the Centre channel & tweak every clip by means of the processor Volume control to give much the same meter reading & note quickly what the reading was and once into the feature go back & edit in those processor settings to the playlist & save it = Done. End result was that what came out of the sound system was of a fairly even volume setting for the lot. I guess most most complexes would not have the luxury of being able to pre run & check most trailers in particular but for a small site such as I had it made life VERY easy. Patrons often commented that the volume levels were not blasting them out of their seats & why was it so. But if there is such a plether of variations of differing bits of gear all talking different lingo's then I am NOT surprised that the complexes just think of a Vol setting and use that. Dolby made it so good I was rather spoilt all last season. The 35mm side I knew had some sort of automations available that could do volume changes but never saw it done here in WA Australia. Again in my case it was a very simple setup of a Century CC & an Eprad Mut feeding into an Australian made processor which did the job quite well but all had to be manually driven to get on screen & going. NO automation with that...would have been total overkill but the digital switch changed the entire operating process big time which meant we lost a doorman & the projectionist (me) became the doorman. Automated the entire night so one just switched the NEC ON & shut the bio box door & left it to it with only one glitch when the system missed a lighting cue. Kill power at nights end and wander off home...loved it best move I ever made. Lindsay  |  IP: Logged

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