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Topic: Universal Citywalk - Dawn of Justice IMAX

Aron Toplitsky
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 113
From: Gardena, CA, USA
Registered: May 2012

posted 03-19-2016 01:53 AM

For the past few weeks I've noticed AMC Universal Citywalk in Los Angeles, was not listing Dawn of Justice in IMAX with 3D. I contacted AMC via Twitter and a representative confirmed that they will be showing it in IMAX Laser 2D. I don't know about anyone else living in the Southern California area, but I am absolutely thrilled about this! I saw Force Awakens there in IMAX Laser 3D and felt it was underwhelming. After that experience I decided to give up on 3D. I can't wait to see those full IMAX scenes laser projected!

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Jonathan Goeldner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1360
From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008

posted 03-19-2016 11:39 AM

is the IMAX-laser (2D) engagement actual 4K ?

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Manny Montes
Master Film Handler

Posts: 270
From: United States
Registered: Feb 2010

posted 03-19-2016 03:25 PM

Another weird oddity is that IMAX brags that they can support the rec2020 colorspace on the 4k laser systems, but what I wonder is are any studios going to do this? I'd assume that its a huge additional cost to support very few screens and we aren't even sure if the laser version of this movie is 4k either.

I'm wondering if the only things we are going to see in 4k in that colorspace are going to be the IMAX documentary films or tech demos for a while....

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 03-19-2016 10:35 PM

There are other systems out there that work with wide color gamut schemes, like the Dolby Cinema system and Barco 6P laser systems. There will be more content for them, I guess IMAX can source it from there.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-20-2016 12:04 AM

From what I understand the Dolby Cinema system can do HDR, 4K and 3D all at the same time. It's a proprietary system. Nevertheless supposedly Dolby Cinema can fulfill all those check list marks.

Unfortunately Hollywood studios are only producing for the lowest common denominator. So, if a movie has 3D in it the fucking thing is only going to be rendered in 2K. Not 4K. And that's making the launch of the Ultra HD Blu-ray format a Goddamn embarrassing travesty of a thing. Most of the launch titles are FAKE 4K! Their digital intermediates were rendered in HDTV quality 2K. But then they fake "uprezzed" them to 4K. Uh, sorry, but up-rezzing is a drop kick in the face worthy waste of damn time. They should never ever do that. But they think us customers are just plain stupid and would never catch on to details. Well, guess what movie studio douche bags, you're probably getting told "fuck you" by a bunch of home theater geeks right about now.

Meanwhile, Dolby Cinema @ AMC Prime installations in the United States are proceeding significantly faster than "IMAX with Laser". The IMAX laser installs are proceeding at such a pathetically slow pace IMAX removed the damned laser section off their revamped web site. They do NOTHING to show which theaters are equipped with laser, HDTV BULLSHIT 2K REZ and true IMAX 70mm. IMAX painted their happy asses into this corner by telling film to kiss off. Now they have their necks in the noose and the noose is starting to tighten more and more.

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Daniel Schulz
Master Film Handler

Posts: 387
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 03-20-2016 10:39 AM

quote: Bobby Henderson
Unfortunately Hollywood studios are only producing for the lowest common denominator. So, if a movie has 3D in it the fucking thing is only going to be rendered in 2K. Not 4K. And that's making the launch of the Ultra HD Blu-ray format a Goddamn embarrassing travesty of a thing. Most of the launch titles are FAKE 4K! Their digital intermediates were rendered in HDTV quality 2K. But then they fake "uprezzed" them to 4K. Uh, sorry, but up-rezzing is a drop kick in the face worthy waste of damn time. They should never ever do that. But they think us customers are just plain stupid and would never catch on to details. Well, guess what movie studio douche bags, you're probably getting told "fuck you" by a bunch of home theater geeks right about now.

I am in complete agreement that the industry needs to move towards proper 4K DIs and DCPs. But, I don't think the UHD Blu Rays are in the main complete rip-offs. The increased pixel count is only part of the spec - UHD Blu Ray is also using superior compression algorithms, wider color space, support for HDR, and in many cases Dolby Atmos or DTS:X sound (although to be fair, the new sound formats can be used on Blu Ray as well). A well-mastered UHD Blu Ray disc will look far better than its Blu Ray counterpart, even if the pixel count is achieved only by scaling the original 2K DI up to the UHD spec.

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Aron Toplitsky
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 113
From: Gardena, CA, USA
Registered: May 2012

posted 03-22-2016 03:07 PM

Thanks to this site I've learned a lot about these studios not releasing more films in 4K. It's such a damn shame!

So Dolby Cinema HAS the capability of a 4K 3D presentation?

According to IMDB, there is a 4K DI for Dawn of Justice. So is it still possible the IMAX Laser 2D will be 2K? That would really piss me off! I'm wondering if they decided to go with 2D, due to complaints with Force Awakens 3D not looking too good?

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-22-2016 10:37 PM

Most of the "Lie-MAX" theaters will be showing the movie in 2K/3D with at least some theaters showing 2K/2D for people who don't want to pay near $20 per ticket.

With so few IMAX with Laser equipped theaters I really have to wonder if they would "DMR" master a 4K IMAX version and 12 track mix rather than just play the version they're giving to all the hundreds of other 2K theaters. They don't advertise any specifics between any of the theaters, so who would know the difference?

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Daniel Schulz
Master Film Handler

Posts: 387
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 03-23-2016 12:15 AM

quote: Bobby Henderson
With so few IMAX with Laser equipped theaters I really have to wonder if they would "DMR" master a 4K IMAX version and 12 track mix rather than just play the version they're giving to all the hundreds of other 2K theaters. They don't advertise any specifics between any of the theaters, so who would know the difference?

They will, especially for a title that was filmed in part using 15/70 IMAX cameras. Remember, the whole point of IMAX developing the laser projection system was to find a way to finally approach the picture quality of 15/70 film projection. In the case of BvS, the filmmakers are also using the varying aspect ratio trick in which full-size IMAX screens open up to the full IMAX frame. Besides, on movies this big IMAX is gunning for hosting some of the premiers in IMAX, so you can bet they'll be mastering in 4K to show off the laser projectors and using the 12 channel sound system.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 03-23-2016 01:21 AM

quote: Aron Toplitsky
So Dolby Cinema HAS the capability of a 4K 3D presentation?

Setups using the Barco Alchemy ICMP, Dolby Cinema and Laser IMAX do have the capability to show 3D features in 4K.

The problem though, this content is inherently DCI incompatible, so there is up until now, not much content available.

IMAX is remastering their own movies into their non-DCI compatible DCPs, so if they source it from an 4K intermediate, they could easily create a 4K 3D release. The problem is, there are not all that many locations that will be capable of showing this.

As for "the rest", it's essentially up to the studios if they're willing to create a special release which works with Barco Alchemy and Dolby Cinema installs.

Dolby might be capable to motivate more studios to show off the HDR capabilities of the Dolby Vision system, part of their Dolby Cinema concept. Since the result will be a special release for those theaters, they could as well release it in 4K if it's a 3D release.

In the meantime, let's hope the DCI specs get updated as such that higher bandwidths, frame-rates and color spaces can be supported in a more unified fashion, or else that might be the premature end of the DCI concept, where a properly mastered DCP is supposed to be compatible with anything that's been DCI certified.

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Pietro Clarici
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 136
From: Foligno (PG) Italy
Registered: Sep 2008

posted 03-23-2016 05:35 AM

I'd expect the new dual Sony systems (515DS and 510DS) to be capable of 4K 3D too, but I'm not too hopeful since they wanted exhibitors to pay 3000$ for a simple HFR software update back in 2012.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-24-2016 11:22 AM

quote: Daniel Schulz
They will, especially for a title that was filmed in part using 15/70 IMAX cameras. Remember, the whole point of IMAX developing the laser projection system was to find a way to finally approach the picture quality of 15/70 film projection. In the case of BvS, the filmmakers are also using the varying aspect ratio trick in which full-size IMAX screens open up to the full IMAX frame. Besides, on movies this big IMAX is gunning for hosting some of the premiers in IMAX, so you can bet they'll be mastering in 4K to show off the laser projectors and using the 12 channel sound system.

I still can't help but wonder.

For one thing, movies "mixed" in Dolby Atmos seem pretty hit and miss. One movie will have a mix that really utilizes the format while others sound hardly any different than a 5.1 or 7.1 mix. Some of the superhero movies have been guilty of sporting Atmos in name only mixes. Note: this is a difference I've seen watching various movies in Atmos in the same theater. Lots of movie theaters have different Atmos configurations. Some spent considerably more money on more powerful, "higher resolution" systems while others pinched pennies on speakers and amps. That makes the Atmos thing in commercial cinemas an even more difficult proposition for paying customers.

Some of the same problems will extend to the IMAX 12 track format. Essentially a movie's post production crew is going to port the same object oriented mix over to the different sound formats they're going to use. Since they're often given next to no time at all to complete a project short cuts will have to be made.

And then there's the whole Tyranny of 2K thing. Ultra-HD Blu-ray is getting off to a very embarrassing launch with so many of its first titles being Fake-4K blow-ups from 2K. If the movie industry is going to be this shameless pushing a mass market consumer electronics product that will be available in stores for years I don't think it's going to bother them to play fast and loose with the tech on a theatrical product that will be on premium screens for only a couple weeks.

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