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Author Topic: Fix ghosting on MasterImage or RealD Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 03-24-2016 03:11 PM                        It appears one of my theatres is having a ghosting image with Batman vs Superman on at least one screen with RealD and a NEC2000C projector. This site has 3 RealD screens, our other location has 2 MasterImage screens. Is there anything that can be done to adjust for ghosting with RealD or MasterImage systems? This isn't my home theatre, so I can' say for sure, but to the best of my knowledge there have not been any ghosting issues with other 3D movies. This includes Zootopia which has had 3D showings in the same auditorium(s) using the same formats.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 03-24-2016 04:29 PM                     Using "Z" Screens, or XL? If "Z" screen, make sure that the bubble level gauge mounted on top of the "Z" frame shows being level, for if that gets knocked off alignment, that can cause issues. "XL" requires a tech to align. Good luck  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 03-24-2016 05:22 PM                     I've heard of the same issue from other cinemas with Batman Vs Superman - any chance of an issue with the 3D mastering?  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-24-2016 05:27 PM                     There are a few things that one can call ghosting. - 3D sync issue: this means adjusting settings in the 3D control data. Usually the default data provided by Real-D or MasterImage is ideal though. If the 3D was good before and nobody with itchy fingers has been "optimizing" the 3D settings this is not a likely problem. - Bad glasses? They both work with circular polarization and all "OEM" glasses should work equally well. I think one even works properly with the other (ie L/R polarization directions are the same). I have seen 3D glasses that were bought online from somewhere other than Master Image to save a few bucks... they were not at all good. - Trouble with polarizer: burned or otherwise damaged Z-Screen or MI wheel/panel. I don't think it's possible to burn an XL. - Reflections: if your port window is vertical, a Z-Screen or XL, Wave3D, even an MI wheel, can cause ghost images from light reflected off the port glass, back to the 3D unit, and back out to the screen. Most visible in credits where a slightly larger fairly dim ghost image follows the crawl. The port glass should be tilted to show the ghost images off screen. - Connection: The Z-Screen "DIN plug" is notorious for bad connections, it can look perfect but be just a bit out: this can cause weird on/off ghosting (severe though!). Reseat both ends and make sure they are seated all the way in. "Ghostbusting" - RealD has ghostbusting done in the server, you need a license to activate it though - free to RealD customers. Call RealD support if you don't have this active, it does make a difference but I don't know what it does or how. I know Doremi will do it, don't know about other servers but they should. - XL misalignment looks sorta ghosty but it doesn't change: you get double images that look the same in both eyes. Easy to check by showing a 2D image or a test pattern through the XL: the best possible setup will lose focus compared to no XL in the light path, bad will have double images at one or both sides - or all over.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 03-24-2016 06:10 PM                     I'll go with that DIN S-video cable issue for the Z screen. Had to replace one of mine, for the display box was displaying available 3D content and the screen was new. We have a motorized screen mover and was odd that a cable would go out like that.  |  IP: Logged Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 03-24-2016 08:11 PM                        I just watched a stretch of the movie for myself (MasterImage system), and what I noticed was the foreground images were almost always steady and clean, but there were a lot of ghosting and other issues with background images. I found it to be somewhat distracting because it would occasionally create odd patterns. As an example: there is one scene where the focus is on a foreground character who is standing in an office. Over his shoulder you see a computer monitor, except you see 3 monitors: 1 is bright like a monitor should be, and then off to either side you see a a portion of a monitor with a 'half bright' screen. Another example is you see the side of a bridge where there is a brick pattern. If you look at the pattern you see odd breaks and overlaps in the pattern. But in both instances the foreground characters are nice and clear with no hint of ghosting.  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-24-2016 09:25 PM                     That sounds like the timing is off or the polarizers are tired. The foreground objects probably look OK because they have no 3D offset - you can see this if you take the glasses off. Objects at the screen plane will look fairly normal, in front or behind will have two images beside each other. Does the wheel seem to when viewed from the lens sidestand still with 3D image showing? If it seems to twitch around a lot the motor drive could be failing, it should lock quite firmly to the sync signal. If you can manually get it up and running with 2D playing, starting a 3D clip in 3D - 3D selected in the server and a 3D preset in the projector - you will hear the wheel speed up to sync speed and see the wheel segments lock into sync. If the sync looks stable, MI wheel adapters come with a spare wheel: I would install that and see if it's better. But... some crosstalk/ghosting is unavoidable. It's worst with high contrast bright objects behind or in front of the screen: it looks like what you describe, but if the system is working right with a good wheel the ghosting shouldn't be bright and annoying.  |  IP: Logged Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 03-24-2016 10:15 PM                        Thanks for the info Dave, I'll take a closer look. However, we are getting the same thing on systems with RealD and MasterImage.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-25-2016 01:07 AM                     I'd start with a 3D test image from your server using the same frame rate and using the same preset in your projector. A good test pattern will give you a feel for any ghosting. Note, the pattern need not be MasterImage specific. I tend to use Dolby's test pattern and my own since I know them best. Check both eyes to see that ghosting is equal and minimal. With polarized 3D...anything in the light path can degrade the polarization, including the port glass and the screen as well as dust. But start with just a test pattern and start your experiments from there. Compare this theatre to the others without the problem and note any variances in the 3D settings for the "Title".  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 03-25-2016 01:19 AM                     I guess it's the overall dark tone of the movie, combined with the occasional very bright spots that's causing the ghosting issues on polarized systems. What servers are you using at both locations? Maybe the ghostbusting algorithm in use just fails to do its job properly for this kind of content.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 03-25-2016 05:10 AM                     Marcel That's what I thought, lots of high contrast content which the ghost busting simply cannot address. And being a big title, staff bothered to have a look in the auditorium on this occasion  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-25-2016 11:16 AM                     I watched about 15 min of it yesterday and didn't see any ghosting at all. NC-2000 with Real-D XL, system set at about 6 foot lamberts. GDC server. Yaaaaawwwwnnnnnnnn.... What a POS movie! Mark  |  IP: Logged Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 03-25-2016 03:24 PM                        The server is GDC SX-2001 Non-IMB.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 03-25-2016 06:04 PM                     Ya, kinda gave Chris Nolan, exec prod., a black eye with this one.  |  IP: Logged Jorgen Larsen Film Handler Posts: 18 From: Denmark Registered: Jun 2009 posted 03-26-2016 04:09 AM                     Hi We have the same problems with Batman in our cinemas here in Denmark. It seems to be a general problem. The ghosting is on RealD Volfoni and Timewaing systems Dolby DSS200 Kinoton/barco projectors. Justin... is it possible you can find the timekode where the scenes you are talking about are, so I can use them as a reference? Thanks JL  |  IP: Logged

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