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Topic: Barco DP2K-8S - ICMP vs HDMI connect
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John Roddy
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 114
From: Spring, TX, United States
Registered: Dec 2012
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posted 04-03-2017 10:39 PM
Is it possible the output from the stage was delivering PoE as well as the A/V signal (more likely HDBase-T, as Steve mentioned)? HDMI only uses 5V, but typical power over ethernet is 48V. That could potentially result in the receiver getting 48V instead of the 5V it's expecting, and if it's not particularly well designed, it might not adjust for it and just pass that straight to the projector port.
It's a stretch, but that's the only explanation I can think of.
Also, for reference, 25ft+ HDMI cables are not that expensive. I actually own a 50ft cable that's supposed to be fully compatible with all HDMI bells & whistles (4K@60Hz, HDR, ARC, and other assorted abbreviations). I think it was only around $30 on Amazon. Anything rated for HDMI "high speed" should be able to do at least any 2K demand you put on it.
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Carsten Kurz
Film God
Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009
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posted 04-04-2017 01:40 AM
It may indeed be that your HDMI-CAT6 receiver fried the HDMI input, but it doesn't necessarily have to happen, it may have been an unlucky choice.
I am usually quite concerned about expensive devices with a single HDMI port. So what I usually prefer to have is another device in front of that connector that allows some safety protection from hot-plugging, connector-wear, etc. Typically, another HDMI repeater, switcher, splitter, etc. In this case, a switcher/matrix would be useful anyway, since it would allow to switch from the stage HDMI to a local booth HDMI.
I would first backup the ICMP and projector settings, then do a full reset in Communicator, then try again after the unit has been unpowered completely for a while.
If this ICMP must be repaired, you may just as well ask Barco wether they could supply you with the new dual HDMI2.0 module.
Do you have a link to the HDMI-CAT booster you used?
There are some devices that allow to power either the receiver or transmitter side remotely, so you have a common ground, getting you out of potential ground-loop issues. For some installations, optical fibre is advisable.
If this signal is running over a standard CAT5/6/7 installation (patch panels, wall sockets, patch cables, etc.), make extra sure no one can ever swap cables unwittingly. What type of cable is running between stage and booth - stranded, or solid wire, wall plugs, shielded/unshielded?
There are converters from HDMI to Displayport (note that this direction is special, there are many cheap cables doing it the other way round), but on the ICMP these may be a bit problematic, as you can't adjust the Gamma or color coding on these ports. If that stage HDMI is mainly intended to connect a remote computer/laptop, I would advise to use the ICMPs Displayport for that connection, and connect HDMI only locally to consumer equipment like DVD/Bluray.
HDMI can be a beast. But the good thing is, there are so many affordable converters from and to every imaginable format available. I just found a unit in one of my daily newsletters that will convert and switch either HDMI, DP or VGA to it's HDMI output, and costs only around 70US$.
- Carsten
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Carsten Kurz
Film God
Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009
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posted 04-06-2017 07:34 PM
Marcel - while you can judge the typical dual CAT5 extender as simple 1:1 level converters, you can not base assumptions about other devices solely on their use of a single cable.
To my knowledge, there are three prominent types of single cable extenders:
- Serializer/De-Serializer (similiar to HDMI-SDI converters)
- HDBaseT standard devices (the more expensive ones)
- IP based 're-encoding' type. These actually compress in near realtime to lossy codecs like MJPEG and use a streaming-like technology. They can be routed over switches, offer multipoint connections, etc. - but they show some inherent latency and compression artifacts. But typically, as IP based devices, they can utilize the maximum allowed length of an ethernet segment, and more with interconnecting switches easily.
I would not recommend this third lossy compressing type,unless there is a special applicational need for it. Considering the complexity of transmitter and receiver with a codec and IP core, I was surprised to find some of these at prices well below 100€ per pair.
HDBaseT is certainly the type to prefer, being the most robust, and an industry standard, but sometimes too expensive.
The serializer/de-serializer type is HDMI transparent, there is no lossy compression or latency involved, but the cheaper units need high quality cables for longer cable runs, and/or will not work reliably over cable lengths of more than 50-60 metres. Within those limits, I have found these to be working reliably, at a cost of 50-60€ per transmitter/receiver pair. Some of them offer automatic or manual cable length equalization.
The serializer/deserializer type is also available for optical fibre connections, but at even higher prices. HDMI-HDSDI-HDMI may be another option if coax cable is available or preferred.
- Carsten
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 04-07-2017 06:36 AM
Consider too, with the HDBaseT stuff, many (non-DCinema) projectors and switches now accept that signal so you may only need 1/2 of the equipment to utilize it. It also allows for powering one end from the other and even moving Ethernet and/or control signals over the single CAT cable so there may be other economies in using an established defacto standard. Even the likes of Extron, which likes proprietary things has bowed, somewhat, to HDBaseT (some of their switchers have now have a switch position for it).
We recently put in a Panasonic projector that, with a single Ethernet cable had communication with the projector for control, "HDMI" video signal as well as their web interface. That used to be up to three cables (RS232 for control, Ethernet if you wanted the web interface that is handy for configuration, and the video signal via HDMI...now all just one Ethernet and, as I said before, you just need to supply the one end.
With HDBaseT you are also not locked into a single manufacturer for either end too, as evidence by above (Panasonic projector with Extron and Atlona switches, extender).
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