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Author Topic: Updating sound system - amp choices Andy Frodsham Expert Film Handler Posts: 238 From: Stoke on Trent, Staffs, UK Registered: Nov 2006 posted 05-12-2017 05:02 AM                     We are a part-time art house cinema which has been operating for 43 years. Presently in the process of securing funding to update our aged sound system, our theatre is 11.2 metres long but widens out from front to back (8.2 metres wide at front and 22 metres wide at the back). In terms of loudspeakers, we have been specified (all QSC): SC 323C (Tri-tri amped) for the three stage speakers. SB 7218 Sub 10 x SR 1020 surrounds For amps, we have been specified two possible systems: QSC Core 110F 4 x QSC DPA4.2 4 channel amps versus QSC DCM30D Monitor/crossover 3 x QSC DCA 1222 2 channel amps (Mid/high frequency stage speakers) 1 x QSC DCA 1824 4 channel amp (surrounds) 4 x QSC DCA 1622 2 channel amps (low frequency stage units and bridged for sub) We already have the four DCA 1622's in our existing system which the supplier has incorporated into the above spec'. I have an inclination to stay with the DCA range and the more instinctive fault-finding offered by the DCM30D monitor. Any recommendations from those of you with more experience would be welcome.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-12-2017 07:39 AM                     As a general rule, you'd have to try pretty hard to get a bad system from QSC so you are in a win-win situation there. I would change the speaker choice, myself, to the SC-423C or SC-424 as I feel the components offer a superior sonic value. The SC-424, even wired in tri-amp fashion has an extra compression driver coaxially mounted to handle frequencies above 7KHz so the system is pretty effortless going through the screen for the high-frequencies. Most systems sound "pushed" in order to get above 10KHz and, as such, can sound harsh. If you are going Q-Sys, stick with DPA-Q amplifiers. I'm not a fan of the straight DPA amps. They can suck half a day away if they need updates and once you have a Q-Sys core in the system, why not go all network for the amplifiers? So what is the purpose of going Q-SYS in your system here? Is the 110F to be your cinema processor too with a good UI (UCI)? If not, perhaps the QSYS is overkill unless you want additional flexibility that drag-n-drop type DSPs offer. If so, then the DCM-30D and DCA amps is sufficient for your needs and there is no need to spend the extra on what a DSP based solution offers. The DCM/DCA solution is VERY tried and true. As for fault finding, a Q-SYS system can run rings around a traditional system there but you really are at the mercy of whoever sets up your system to take advantage of it.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 05-12-2017 08:30 AM                     Andy - what is you current (and future) cinema audio processor? What type of content will be shown in this location? - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Andy Frodsham Expert Film Handler Posts: 238 From: Stoke on Trent, Staffs, UK Registered: Nov 2006 posted 05-12-2017 09:01 AM                     Many thanks for your observations, Steve. I have already requested pricing for the speaker you suggest. Carsten, we are using a CP750 processor (which we intend to keep). Most of our content is fairly laid-back art-house type cinema material, with the odd bit of mainstream second-run. Some content can be very demanding. Additionally, we get the odd bit of Indian cinema (Telegu) which is usually recorded hot anyway and is usually accompanied by demands to play louder! We are looking for subtlety combined with an ability to cope with brute power at times (I suppose everyone wants that)!  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 05-12-2017 10:12 AM                        On the content issue, I know that this could be seen as a luxury for which you might struggle to justify funding (grant and loan applications, etc.), but have you thought about five stage channels? If you regularly play Todd-AO and/or SDDS 8-track classics for which the original mixes are available, either on DCPs of digital restorations, or DTS special venue discs for 70mm presentations, it could be worth considering.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-12-2017 12:10 PM                     quote: We are looking for subtlety combined with an ability to cope with brute power at times (I suppose everyone wants that)! After spending over a decade playing foreign and art films, in my opinion, dialogue intelligibility is key. I used to spend quite a lot of time with a cobbled-together sound system, trying to tweak things so that the dialogue was crystal clear. British and Irish accents are the most demanding for an American audience. (I suppose the tables would be turned for a British audience. ) Thus, I would lean toward the tri-amped system. Hopefully, that would allow you to adjust for that "razor sharp" dialogue. Overall power is usually good but dialogue is where I'd put my money if you are showing mostly art films.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 05-12-2017 01:16 PM                     What's the purpose of the QSYS in your installation? Unless the 110f is cheaper than I expect, I feel it's going to be redundant as you already have a CP750. Last time I checked the 110f could not install an AES input so you still have to feed analogue lines. Unless you have some special requirements to go with a QSYS, I'd go with a DCM+DCA which is a great combination. You could also consider an AP20 - that would replace both the CP750 and the DCM30, provide superior EQ and LOTS of alternative inputs including HDMI DTS-MA. It can also be a POWERFUL automation device, when paired with a proper extension board. You lose the Dataport connection though. I am not a fan of it as you end up pushing the outputs of the sound processor into the DCM though - which can and will lead to clipping unless you have tons of speakers. Indeed steer clear from non-Q DPA amps. Also remember that good sound is 50% equipment and 50% acoustic. If the acoustic is poor, you can invest a billion pounds into the equipment and it will still sound bad!  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 05-12-2017 03:55 PM                        quote: Randy Stankey (I suppose the tables would be turned for a British audience. [Wink] ) I wouldn't say so: because probably around 80% of the movies shown in mainstream British cinemas are from Hollywood, British audiences grow up hearing US English dialect and accents, and quickly get used to them. And the only situations I know of in which UK voices are a serious problem for American audiences are when they're very thick regional ones. My wife couldn't cope with the original Get Carter without the DVD hard-of-hearing subtitles on, and the US 35mm prints of My Name is Joe were subtitled (I remember this, because they accidentally put some of the subtitled prints into British distribution, too, and that nearly caused a diplomatic incident between England and Scotland!); but those are the only two examples I can think of off the top of my head. One difference I've found between Britain and the US is that the regional dialect and accent can change dramatically over a very small distance. Travel, say, from York to Newcastle (84 miles), and I wouldn't be surprised if someone who had learned English as a second language believed that they were hearing a totally separate language. You simply wouldn't hear that much change between, say, LA and Santa Barbara (roughly the same distance). Let's face it - 9 out of 10 British movies that make it across the pond are Jane Austen/Shakespeare costume drama type crap, those all have cut glass BBC voices, and the kind of viewer who would seek those out would need to be listening through a badly tuned AM radio to have problems making out the dialogue. Sorry - wandering OT...  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 05-12-2017 04:37 PM                     If there is money for a Q-SYS, in such an environment, I would opt for an AP20. That said, there is a new QSC cinema processor with HDMI - the DPM 100H. I don't know if it's already available. I would also think that location has frequent need for HDMI connectivity. What server and projector is installed? - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-12-2017 04:38 PM                     Oh...I dunno the US accents can get very thick and change pretty heavily with a relatively short drive. The "southern accent" is not one unified one, by any stretch. A Tennessee accent is much thicker than a Carolina one and Mississippi is dramatically different too and within a state it can vary quite a bit. In the New England area again there isn't a unified accent either. Back OT. How is Datasat doing? I'm not sure I'd recommend an AP20, at this stage, unless something has dramatically improved. The DPM100/H is shipping (at least in the USA). However, it violates my 1-year probation clause. I don't like to use things in their first year of production unless they really solve a particular problem. I'm pretty sure you cannot triamp the DPM100 either. It is much more in the line of the DCP100 or DCM10D type system.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 05-12-2017 05:05 PM                     Steve, do you mean Datasat's health as a company?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-12-2017 10:02 PM                     I have always questioned Datasat's longevity in the cinema field. There can't be very much money in it for them any more. This is why I have gone another route. Mark  |  IP: Logged Annli Com Expert Film Handler Posts: 140 From: ShibuPaul-India Registered: May 2014 posted 05-12-2017 11:00 PM                        Dear Andy Frodsham you mean the indian cinema in BAAHUBALI 2 ? The Movie Recording In High level Outputs , we are drive CP750 Fader level 4.0 for the movie.The Movie Sounds Center low level Surround Is High. Center HF Failed more locations run the movie.  |  IP: Logged Stephan Shelley Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 854 From: castro valley, CA, usa Registered: Nov 2014 posted 05-12-2017 11:55 PM                     One thing that me be keeping Datasat alive is the Auro 11.1 system is based on the Datasat processor.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-13-2017 09:28 AM                     Yeah, Datasat as a company. I believe Barco is now making their own Auro sound processor.  |  IP: Logged

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