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Topic: DUNKIRK DCP 2.20:1 inside flat container?

Jason Whyte
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 132
From: Victoria, BC, Canada
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 07-07-2017 03:58 PM

According to my Twitter pal and Film-Tech member Daniel Schulz, the upcoming DCP of DUNKIRK will pull a TOMORROWLAND and be letterboxed to 2.20:1 inside a flat container, instead of being shown inside a scope container at 2.39:1 framing with black bars on both sides of the frame.

This is absolutely frustrating as one of my local cinemas booking this movie is playing it on a side masking screen, so the image will be letterboxed within the 1.85 masking.

Rather surprised if this is all true, and I am surprised that Nolan didn't issue a seperate DCP for side masking theaters.

JW

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 07-07-2017 04:55 PM

Many cinemas created custom presets for Tomorrowland (2.2:1) and Jurrassic World (2.0:1) when this BS came up. Ask you local cinema wether they adjust for that. I would expect quite a few more movies to come out in these formats. Even Woody Allen settled on 2.0:1 recently. Having 2.2:1 inside flat is according to current ISDCF recommendations.

---
ISDCF recommended practice that for aspect ratios under 1.85 (such as academy aperture 1.33) pillar box in a flat package. For aspect ratio from 1.85 to 2.30 letter box in a flat package. For aspect ratios above 2.30 letter box in a scope package.
The suggestion is to inform the theaters of the actual aspect ratio of the feature and not request/require masking - but if someone wanted to - great! BUT you must not mess up the trailers - so the masking would need to be automated before the feature.
---

- Carsten

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 07-07-2017 05:03 PM

so is the only reason a 2.20:1 is released in Flat to avoid people from playing it in 2.39 scope cropping top and bottom?

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 07-07-2017 05:43 PM

It's to optimize available resolution/imager estate. Some people would say this could be overcome by issuing 4k DCPs - however, as the majority of cinemas is still 2k, they would still play in 2k, and that would result in only 1887*858 for the scope DCP. Yes, in flat it is not that much more at 1998*908 - but it's enough to make an educated choice. That's why the ISDCF recommendation turns over at 2.3:1

- Carsten

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Pietro Clarici
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 136
From: Foligno (PG) Italy
Registered: Sep 2008

posted 07-08-2017 05:18 AM

quote: Carsten Kurz
It's to optimize available resolution/imager estate.

2.20:1 still seems pointless to me, but I'd understand that reasoning if they released a full-width 2048x930 DCP. Letterboxing it into a Flat container is just plain annoying.

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Daniel Schulz
Master Film Handler

Posts: 387
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 07-08-2017 11:52 AM

quote: Pietro Clarici
2.20:1 still seems pointless to me, but I'd understand that reasoning if they released a full-width 2048x930 DCP. Letterboxing it into a Flat container is just plain annoying.

At least for Dunkirk there is a good reason for the 2.20:1 aspect ratio; apart from the 15/70 IMAX prints, you can think of the "native" release of this film as being the 5/70 film prints, which are of course 2.20:1.

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Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011

posted 07-08-2017 01:04 PM

But everyone who has a "proper" Cinemascope screen ends up playing this movie as a much smaller image than it could or should be.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 07-08-2017 03:06 PM

Not everyone, just the ones that didn't do the extra effort to create a 2.20 preset that utilizes the screen real estate the best.

That said, I'm in favor of a C-220 format that utilizes the full container. You get the most pixels for those that set up for it and minimal cropping for those that don't.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 07-12-2017 07:22 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
format that utilizes the full container.

For it gets the full 1990x1080 container and can be called "High Definition" instead of the sub definition of 858x2048 as with the scope container along with only using part of the chipset.

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Aron Toplitsky
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 113
From: Gardena, CA, USA
Registered: May 2012

posted 07-12-2017 10:40 PM

Hmmm, well it's going to be interesting to see how my local theater (AMC Del Amo 18 Torrance CA) shows their 70MM print. As far as I know, their larger screens are common height, (side masking) but does that mean they are going to frame it for 2.20:1 or show it in a Flat container? And what about a reputable theater like Arclight? How will they present their 70MM print?

Not sure if this question makes sense, is it possible to properly side mask a 2.20:1 70MM film on a Common Height Scope screen? And without seeing any black bars on top or bottom of the frame? Can those side curtains be precisely adjusted to that aspect ratio?

Ooops, am I not supposed to post a 5/70 question here?

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Daniel Schulz
Master Film Handler

Posts: 387
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 07-12-2017 10:56 PM

quote: Aron Toplitsky
As far as I know, their larger screens are common height, (side masking) but does that mean they are going to frame it for 2.20:1 or show it in a Flat container? And what about a reputable theater like Arclight? How will they present their 70MM print?

Not sure if this question makes sense, is it possible to properly side mask a 2.20:1 70MM film on a Common Height Scope screen? And without seeing any black bars on top or bottom of the frame? Can those side curtains be precisely adjusted to that aspect ratio?

"Container" doesn't pertain to the 70mm prints. The aspect ratio for the film print is what it is, 2.20:1. They'll definitely be able to project on a CIH 'scope screen and fill the screen from top-to-bottom. Adjusting the side masking *shouldn't* be an issue, although nowadays with the lack of projection staff who knows?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 07-13-2017 08:56 AM

quote: Monte L Fullmer
For it gets the full 1990x1080 container

For so few words, so many mistakes. A FLAT container is 1998x1080 (2K). A FULL Container (as I referenced) is 2048x1080 (2K) or 4096x2160 (4K) meaning that if Dunkirk was issued in C-220 it would have a resolution of 4096x1862 as compared to F-220 3996x1816 or S-220 3775x1716.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 07-13-2017 06:24 PM

Agree above, but just referencing to what we at the locations have to use being we're kinda stuck with the Flat container.

But, thx for the added info.

-Monte

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Bill Brandenstein
Master Film Handler

Posts: 413
From: Santa Clarita, CA
Registered: Jul 2013

posted 07-14-2017 12:41 PM

Confirmed as F-220, now that the Projectionist's letter is online from Deluxe.

quote:
We are writing to you in regards to the presentation ratio of ‘DUNKIRK’.
Filmmakers have finished the DCP in the 2.2:1 ratio.
The active image is 3996x1818 (2.2:1) within a 3996x2160 (1.85:1) container.
The film is intended to play in a FLAT presentation.
For SCOPE shaped screens, see below:
• Present the film in the Flat 1.85:1 aspect ratio
• Open side masking, Zoom lens to fit image top to bottom of screen, leaving bars left and right
• Do not present in the Scope 2.40:1 ratio, this could result in top and bottom of the image being cropped
On your DCP or DCDC download a framing chart will be included to help set up your screens (see below).

Then, oddly enough, on the second page the summary box below the poster image is wrong, claiming "Image Format: 4096x1716 4K Flat." Old information?

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 07-14-2017 04:01 PM

Interesting how the studios think that all Cinemas have 4k projectors where these pixel ratios relate to a 4k presentation.

Lot of us will have to use the 1080x1998, 2k settings.

Now, if we only had either drop width maskings, or scissor maskings to matt this image the way it's supposed to be presented ....

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