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Topic: Laser LIEMAX at Legacy Venues

Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 08-28-2018 07:44 AM

My understanding is that Laser LIEMAX projection at traditional IMAX houses fill the 1.43 screen using a 4K projector and a vertically-oriented anamorphic lens. Can someone confirm this?

But many venues will spend most of their time showing Hollywood movies at 2.39 : 1 (2.2 for 2001). Does the anamorphic come off (or automatically move aside) for such shows? It would be kind of stupid to spread out the the pixels to fill the non widescreen shape only to crop about half away.

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Geoff Jones
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 579
From: Broomfield, CO, USA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 08-28-2018 09:22 AM

Good luck even finding a laser liemax venue.

I wrote to Imax Customer Service about that recently:

quote:
Hello,

Have any of the Imax locations in Colorado upgraded to 4k laser or are they all still projecting low-resolution 2k? I have tried watching 2k and is like looking through a screen door.

Also, will the Colorado Boulevard location ever project IMAX 70MM film again?

Thank you,

Geoff

quote:
Dear Geoff,

Thanks for your note and interest in IMAX .

There are no IMAX laser location yet in Colorado.

However, I think you will find our current systems quite good considering our proprietary picture and audio enhancement, our sub-pixel alignment twin projector systems, our 60% brighter images and amazing sound.

Hopefully, in the near future IMAX laser will come to your area. Your closest place to see IMAX film would be Citywalk in LA or AMC Metreon in San Fran. They are currently showing The Dark Knight and 2001 in film. I doubt 70MM IMAX will return to Colorado.

I really appreciate your note, and I will pass on to our sales team of your interest in IMAX laser.

Chicago is closer to Denver than San Francisco, so there must not be any laser installations there.

Also, what's this bunk about their current 2k systems being "quite good" now? Have they changed since they were first installed? I saw Raiders of the Lost Ark in 2k liemax and it looked terrible.

The note about 70MM IMax in Colorado makes me sad.

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 08-28-2018 09:50 AM

They can write whatever technobabble nonsense they want about "sub pixel alignment" but 2K is not adequate for any "IMAX" sized screen. I saw Mission Impossible: Fallout in 2k "IMAX" due to showtime convenience. On any bright scene I could CLEARLY see the screen door effect from the third to back row.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 08-28-2018 10:14 AM

I don't know if the anamorphic lenses are movable, but they don't move for shows in scope. You'll end up with noticeable rectangular pixels.

Since those legacy venues usually have humongous screens and your traditional seating position is "right in your face", those pixels are still pretty much visible at 4K.

What's even more awkward is that, at least to me, due to those rectangular, still visible pixels, everything somehow looks like it's skewed together.

While horizontally stretched pixels work fine for me, those Apple Lisa style pixels have the tendency to make the picture look squashed together.

Also, it's such a total waste, looking at a scope feature on those screens. It's not anything more special than sitting in the front of a large scope screen, only with more artifacts like those "squashed pixels" and speckle rainbow all over the place.

The speckle will make it look like you're looking at a fairy tale. There's rainbow colored sprinkles all over the image.

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Chris Haller
Film Handler

Posts: 68
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Registered: Dec 2015

posted 08-28-2018 11:20 AM

I recently took a trip up to the Cinesphere in Toronto, which recently reopened with an IMAX 4K Laser set up and a new silver screen. The laser setup does use a vertical anamorphic lens to stretch the 1.90:1 image from the 4K projector to 1.44:1. They have also kept their 15/70 capabilities with a GT 3D system.

I was really there to see The Dark Knight in 15/70, but I did stop in early and see 20 minutes of Aircraft Carrier in 4K 2D through the laser setup. I did notice a bit of speckling, but sitting near the middle of the auditorium I didn't notice any visible pixels like I often do at our 2K Xenon IMAX in Rochester. According to the film's website, there is a native 4K version of the film available, and I'm positive that's what the Cinesphere ran. Maybe its different when you're viewing a 2K IMAX presentation through the 4K setup.

Aircraft Carrier was a weird case though - it was constantly switching back and forth between 1.44:1, 1.90:1, and 2.35:1 and whatever shape the legacy footage was in, so I never really got a taste of watching a standard feature through the 4K laser setup. I'd rather go back sometime when they're playing a traditional IMAX feature.

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 08-28-2018 12:29 PM

Chicago's Navy Pier went Laser LIEMAX last year. AMC now operates it and I can attend using my A-List membership so no incremental cost. Curious what 2001 would look like.

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Sean Weitzel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Vacaville, CA (1790 miles west of Rockwall)
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 08-28-2018 02:11 PM

Slightly on topic- The Hackworth Imax dome at the tech museum in San Jose California is now 4k laser. The first laser Imax dome I am aware of.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 08-28-2018 03:37 PM

quote: Chris Haller
I was really there to see The Dark Knight in 15/70, but I did stop in early and see 20 minutes of Aircraft Carrier in 4K 2D through the laser setup. I did notice a bit of speckling, but sitting near the middle of the auditorium I didn't notice any visible pixels like I often do at our 2K Xenon IMAX in Rochester. According to the film's website, there is a native 4K version of the film available, and I'm positive that's what the Cinesphere ran. Maybe its different when you're viewing a 2K IMAX presentation through the 4K setup.

I don't really consider my vision superior to the average, but maybe I'm a bit more triggered by those artifacts than the "casual" moviegoer (I'm not saying I count you as one). I often even spot pixels in 4K presentations on proper 4K machines, especially in subtitles, titling and credit sequences, where edges are often pretty hard.

Also, not every "IMAX legacy venue" is the same and even within the same venue there is a difference in seating position that can make a whole lot of impact.

In my opinion, 4K isn't good enough to fill those humongous screens, it doesn't replace "horizontal" 70MM, maybe we come a bit closer once we reach 8K.

In my opinion, "IMAX with Lasers" is just as crap as "IMAX with Xenon", although the reasons why it's crap are different.

Right now, the only good IMAX is the REAL IMAX, the one with the oversized "legacy" film and it's only good if the FULL FRAME is being used, the rest is just b.s.

Looking at a scope presentation on a skyscraper-sized, unmasked screen feels like you're watching the thing through a burqa...

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Buck Wilson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 894
From: St. Joseph MO, USA
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 08-28-2018 03:57 PM

"...and amazing sound"

Wow! Sold!

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 08-28-2018 06:43 PM

Looks like the moniker, "Laser" is the new selling point to draw folks in to see a laser projected movie.

From: Technicolor, 3D, Cinerama, CinemaScope, CinemaScope55, Todd-AO, Super Panavision 70, et.al - just to get people off the couch and watching TV.

(only if they new of how the process really works..)

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-28-2018 08:32 PM

Apparently it costs around $2 million to convert a 15/70 IMAX location to the laser digital system. I’m guessing much of the cost is in the dual laser projection system. For all the other dual 2K theaters, which all charge a hefty premium ticket price, the least IMAX could do is install the 12-channel sound system. Every Dolby Cinema screen has Atmos. Every Cinemark XD theater has Auro 11.1 (and some variation of THX). IMAX 2K screens are ordinary 5.1 with just two big speakers in the rear corners of the room. Yeah, it can get loud. But it’s hardly what I would call great.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 08-29-2018 01:42 AM

Well, technically speaking, it's a 6.0 audio format, although many of those "Xenon Digital" systems seem to omit the speaker for the "height" channel.

There is no "LFE" channel in IMAX and also their digital content doesn't use an LFE channel. The bass is extracted out of the 6 channels using bass management.

Sorry for nitpicking. [Wink]

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-29-2018 08:32 AM

Okay, we'll call it a 5.0 system. I don't think I've ever seen a "voice of God" channel in any Lie-MAX house. Even if one of those 2K houses had it the system would still stink compared to a decent Atmos-equipped rig.

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 08-29-2018 10:17 AM

quote: Bobby Henderson
I don't think I've ever seen a "voice of God" channel in any Lie-MAX house

Isn't the IMAX height channel just higher on the screen, not above the audience? I assume that it was because the original IMAX screen was so tall.

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Allan Young
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 125
From: EGHAM, Surrey UK
Registered: Jun 2011

posted 08-29-2018 10:23 AM

Speaking of digital IMAX venues, I visited one for the first time to see Avengers: Infinity War which filled the 1.90:1 screen. And about 25% of the screen was obscured by the people sitting in the row in front. Luckily the screening wasn't too busy and I was able to move a few seats along. Even then, the people's heads three rows in front of me were visible in the frame. If I hadn't been able to move seats, I'd have demanded my money back.

Do all these digital houses have awful sightlines? I realise the old 1.43:1 screens weren't fully visible either, but the screen size was such that it didn't seem to matter too much.

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