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Author Topic: 4k vs 2k on 30' wide screen Tim Schroepfer Film Handler Posts: 10 From: Great Barrington, Massachusetts Registered: Feb 2015 posted 01-03-2019 02:06 PM                     Friends, We are in the process of specifying a new DCP cinema system to replace 2 reel to reel 35mm systems and a hodgepodge digital projection system. One of the points we are having trouble sorting is if we should invest in 4k or go with 2k. The difference between a CP4325 and a CP2315 is about 40k. Our screen size in scope is 30' wide and flat 24' roughly. With all the 4k gear we see the lamp size or laser output is much brighter than we would need to achieve 14 fL and would pose some challenges in damping down the brightness - especially with Xeon. House seats 680 and throw is 80' We show 2 DVDs per month and carry all the BYE Cinema content (met/ bolshoi/ ntlive). Our goal is to operate the new system for 10 years before looking at an upgrade. Is the 40k worth the investment? Thanks for your help. -Tim Schroepfer Mahaiwe PAC  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 01-03-2019 02:24 PM                     How many shows per typical year? - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Tim Schroepfer Film Handler Posts: 10 From: Great Barrington, Massachusetts Registered: Feb 2015 posted 01-03-2019 02:32 PM                     Carsten, We show on average about 60 films or broadcasts per year. We are the marquee theater for a small but growing and respected film festival. BIFFMA.org. They rent in a DCP system as we don't have one. They would use our system once we make the upgrade. That would add another 20 films a year so 80 total.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-03-2019 02:44 PM                        We have a 30' screen here with 194 seats and about a 90 foot throw. Our 2K system has been just fine.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 01-03-2019 03:09 PM                        Unless the fest insists on 4K and the rental income would justify the investment, I'm having trouble making a case for this. To my eyes, a screen has to be at least 50-60 feet wide in 'scope, and I have to be sitting within about 20 feet of it, to be able to see a detail gain from 4K. Also, you take a contrast hit with 4K using a xenon-lit projector, and most mainstream studio DCPs are still 2K only. The latter may change over the course of ten years, though. I do service one site that has a Barco DP4K-23B, with roughly the same throw and screen size as yours. Sitting in the best seats (for sightlines) in the house, I really can't see any picture quality gain in 4K. If there is an argument in favor, it's that 4K may be a selling point for private rental customers. Some indie and screening room customers who don't have 4K are starting to tell me that this is costing them business.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 01-03-2019 03:15 PM                     Stay with 2K . majority of the content issued is scanned in 2K.  |  IP: Logged Jack Theakston Master Film Handler Posts: 411 From: New York, USA Registered: Sep 2007 posted 01-03-2019 03:24 PM                     Don't throw out your 35mm if you don't have to.  |  IP: Logged Tim Schroepfer Film Handler Posts: 10 From: Great Barrington, Massachusetts Registered: Feb 2015 posted 01-03-2019 03:33 PM                     Jack, The decision to kill the 35mm is a tough one. We put in two new 2k xeon Christie Consoles with Century SA heads in 2006 when the building was being redone instead of putting in a digital system. Over the years the 35mm system has seen less and less use. We only have 400 hours on the 35mm system. Every now and then we want to show a 35mm print, but find that some of what we want to show on 35mm just doesn't have quality prints available. Over my 4 years at the theater we have had a total of 5 35mm screenings. We show Wizard of Oz every year on 35mm and that is the last hold out. We also don't have an audience that is motivated by seeing movies on film. I worked at UCLA and living in LA I got to see a number of things on film and I really enjoyed the experience.  |  IP: Logged Martin McCaffery Film God Posts: 2481 From: Montgomery, AL Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-03-2019 03:37 PM                        I mentioned this in another thread. So far it has only been a single distributor of rep films, but it could possibly grow. Said distributor will only allow a certain set of films to be shown in 4k, as per rights holder demands. We couldn't show the films enough to ever justify the cost of a 4k upgrade, but if rep is part of you program, and others start making this demand, then it may have a negative effect on your programming. But then, so does not having 3D.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 01-03-2019 03:44 PM                     Tim - have you considered buying a Sony 4k system? It gives you 4k AND great contrast (where 4k DLP suffers). And it can be bought at what you have been quoted the difference between 2k and 4k DLP. It offers a couple of other benefits as well for locations like your's. How far away from the screen is your first seat row? - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Tim Schroepfer Film Handler Posts: 10 From: Great Barrington, Massachusetts Registered: Feb 2015 posted 01-03-2019 03:50 PM                     Martin, We weren't granted licenses to show 007 films as the rights holder demanded to show them only on DCP and not Blu-Ray. Part of my concern is future proofing this purchase and 4k plays into that. The smaller 2k projectors have the smaller chip and won't have an upgrade path to 4k or so I am told.  |  IP: Logged Alan Gouger Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 501 From: Bradenton, FL, USA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 01-03-2019 05:48 PM                        The new Sony 815 throws and incredible image. For 3D you would need a polarized screen.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-03-2019 08:26 PM                     Go with the xenon projector and buy an aperture kit. You can run the current on the smallest bulb way down if you need to, but the aperture kit will increase contrast (at the expense of a little bit of light). Also get a high contrast lens, not the high brightness lens. Personally I think 4K is overrated. You don't even show that much content and you have a small screen vs. the size of the room. 2K should be just fine for you. I know Carsten loves the Sonys, but they require constant maintenance to not look terrible. I don't think you want to get into that.  |  IP: Logged Alan Gouger Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 501 From: Bradenton, FL, USA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 01-03-2019 10:17 PM                        quote: Brad Miller 2K should be just fine for you. As a plus, the 2k chip does have higher native contrast.  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 01-04-2019 02:06 AM                     With 60 shows a year, it is probably hard to make the case for a 4K DLP machine. For me, the case of 4K is not so much dependent on screen size, but much more on theater seating configuration. There is an increasing trend to maximize the screen size compared to the size of the room and to put people as close as possible to the screen. This increased form of "immersion" is often sold as a premium concept (PLF) and does, in my opinion, only fit a limited amount of content. In those kind of configurations, even 2K content on a 4K projector will have benefits for those sitting close to the screen. For traditional setups, the benefit of 4K is much more limited. It will primarily benefit those sitting in the first few rows of the screen. The reduced contrast of the 4K DLP machines further negates their purpose, in such a setup.  |  IP: Logged

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