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Author Topic: Q-SYS Component for JNIOR Bruce Cloutier Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Gibsonia, PA, USA Registered: Aug 2016 posted 02-01-2019 07:14 AM                        quote: Sean McKinnon A Q-Sys custom component for the JNIOR would be good imo. While the q-says devices all have relay and GPIO I sometimes have a need to control something that is in a different location than everything else and just send macro commands to the JNIOR over IP. I can program it by hand but who wants to do that! Sean, would you or anyone want to help with Kevin refine a JNIOR component for Q-Sys? We just need some pointers as to how it might be best done. Maybe then test it out for us? We've worked with it a little bit and have some ideas. But, since we aren't experienced with it out there in the cinema we are just not sure what exactly is the best approach. If anyone would like to adapt the JNIOR to Q-SYS you can message me or email Kevin directly. We might just need a little initial guidance and we can definitely make it easier for you.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-01-2019 08:17 AM                     I think was Sean really wants is what QSYS would call a "Plug-In." That essentially gives QSYS a preset user interface that "Resembles" the device. It can issue commands as well as receive them (provide "real" status if a relay or connected device is actually in the mode you think it is in). Probably, the best person to talk to is Jay Wyatt at QSC. He is working on or is in communication with people developing QSYS plugins for Cinema specific needs though I would think the JNIOR would transcend traditional cinema uses. I've emailed both Bruce and Jay to connect them up. Let's see what happens.  |  IP: Logged Bruce Cloutier Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Gibsonia, PA, USA Registered: Aug 2016 posted 02-01-2019 08:45 AM                        Thanks Steve. We actually have a Q-Sys CORE 110f in here on demo supplied by Rick's contact at QSC for this purpose. We also have a full project developed by one of our customers for their Q-Sys installation as an example. I am not sure if Rick is working with Jay Wyatt or someone else. But on that front we were playing telephone through Rick and a direct connection with Kevin here would probably be beneficial. Kevin implemented Blockly as a means to program the JNIOR back when the technique was first introduced. We had recently resurrected the Blockly effort and we see that the Q-Sys programming follows from that somewhat. So it is of interest on that basis too. Our customer who supplied the project admits to being a newbie and so we cannot assume that his approach is the best way to get the job done. I think a plug-in is required. The complexity is that the JNIOR is very flexible. You know, we can easily implement relay outputs and even digital inputs but then there are analog modules, additional relay modules, control panels, dimmers, DMX, network communications and macros which are all variables in the equation. I don't think we are even certain that once we create a plug-in how it might be best distributed. Looks like we could create a project with various examples from which you can cut and paste. Would it be included in Q-Sys or when needed? So advice both from QSC and the user base (you guys) would be great.  |  IP: Logged Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 02-01-2019 09:46 AM                        I would be happy to provide any assistance I can. Steve has pretty much summed it up nicely. A Plug-In with buttons for activating each of the functions and control pins for each function or I/O. I would say maybe for a GP input there should be an LED component along with the control pin that will allow one to take that control signal and connect it to other things. Each relay or GP output should have both a button (maybe two one momentary and one sustained) along with control pins for those. Again, feel free to reach out via email or give me a call at Boston Light and Sound.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-01-2019 10:20 AM                     A typical QSYS component (e.g. plug-in) is such that it has all of the I/O it can do in it. One adds that to their design as single block. Then, from the user interface (UCI as QSC calls it) you can drag out the bits and pieces that are relevant to your specific use-case. One can make as many copies of those as desired too and change buttons to appear/function different and status can do likewise. Just as JNIOR is more of a general purpose device, so is QSYS. So an object in it can have multiple personalities based on need. A fader could give an integer value or a string (text) or merely a position on its range. Typically, all of these are available at all times for the need of the particular item. So a plug-in, in my mind gets you the functionality of the device, what one does with the plug-in is up to them. Below is a VERY basic example I whipped up in a matter of seconds. There is an NEC display plugin. It looks like a remote control. I decided that I was going to create a user interface that would allow one to power it on/off and adjust volume. So all the user sees is what is on the far left. The "schematic" shows the Plugin opened up (the remote), closed (the bluish-green box), the fader component I added and the "volume" control pin I dropped down out of the plug-in so I could get control over that part of it with something other than just the supplied buttons. What isn't shown is I could also drag things I want outside stuff to control over to what they call "named components" such that one can use typical TCP/UDP type sessions to control this as well. The point is, what you/QSC puts into a plug-in is the capability to do things. The QSYS designer ("us") take that and make custom solutions for clients. Mind you, QSYS provides for saving custom components such that if I had, say, a lighting control design I liked, I could save that entire group of stuff to my copy of QSYS Designer (and share it as well). Then anytime I had that dimmer system in a design, I could just drag my previous layout/control back out and I don't have to start from square-1 again. Note, having never worked with this plugin I don't know if the LEVEL control pin is outputting in DB or an integer or a float...regardless I can put a suitable control on it to provide the UCI I depicted. This is just an example.  |  IP: Logged Bruce Cloutier Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Gibsonia, PA, USA Registered: Aug 2016 posted 02-01-2019 12:06 PM                        Thanks Steve. Good information. I've invited Kevin in here so we can work with him directly (hopefully he is worthy and gets approved). I think we need to define a JNIOR-esque remote control. You know, as opposed to the plug-in looking like a JNIOR box. QSC will support us in making this happen. So let's do this right. There are relays to close, digital inputs to sample, analog outputs and inputs (which basically are also the dimmers), control panel switch activation and indicators, even DMX channels. There is also the need to support applications running on the JNIOR that may independently perform macros or issue serial and network communications. The simple stuff is easy. We can start there. Relays not only can be toggled but pulsed with millisecond accuracy. Kodak used them to simulate film cues.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-01-2019 12:50 PM                     I see that my use of the fader was wrong (after seeing just a moment ago...it is a 0-100 since it is showing in the plug-in at 0 with the fader all of the way at zero. I never even noticed the fader! I could skip the added control entirely and drag the supplied fader out and re-orient it vertically (if it suited my design)...anyway... So, typically, a sanctioned plug-in would indeed include an image of a JNIOR as it looks in real-life. But that is just the starting point. As can be seen in the NEC example, they provided more graphic tools than that plus you get to add in whatever control pins (inputs/output/both) that are appropriate to the device. So the physical box is not a limitation of what a proper plug-in does. It can definitely evolve over time too. And if it is a sanctioned plug-in, it becomes available to everyone using QSYS, not just cinema so you'll likely pick up some A/V types needing some fancy I/O control.  |  IP: Logged Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 02-05-2019 02:19 PM                        It seems that a lot of the general A/V industry are using global cache devices with Q-Sys so maybe like Steve says you could pick up some of that market.  |  IP: Logged Bruce Cloutier Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Gibsonia, PA, USA Registered: Aug 2016 posted 02-06-2019 07:43 AM                        INTEG did exhibit and show the JNIOR at InfoComm the past two years. We believe that is at least one of the prime A/V industry shows if not THE show. There was interest in the JNIOR but we decided to skip the 2019 show. We figure that it would be best to go back with some A/V-centric experience and product configurations. It is an interesting market for us to be certain. Our new DMX capabilities were dwarfed by the Stage Lighting industry also present at that show. It would be great though for us to be of help with Q-SYS integration into cinema. We are very excited about the JNIOR plug-in and component support. By the way, we are upping our game at CinemaCon with a new booth. Rick, Kevin and I will be there. Stop by.  |  IP: Logged Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 02-06-2019 09:02 AM                        Bruce, I will be there working in the Collesium. Hopefully I will get to stop by  |  IP: Logged Bruce Cloutier Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Gibsonia, PA, USA Registered: Aug 2016 posted 02-15-2019 03:54 PM                        There has been progress on this front. Just a note that we haven't dropped the topic. We have been working with QSC on this and are very enthusiastic about it. I am hoping that there will be something preliminary that we can share with you soon. If you are commissioning a project with Q-SYS and have or want to employ the JNIOR in the system, get in touch with Rick at the office. You can assist us in validating and verifying the proposed component.  |  IP: Logged Bruce Cloutier Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Gibsonia, PA, USA Registered: Aug 2016 posted 03-20-2019 10:19 AM                        Here's an update on this front. We are working with QSC to create an official Q-SYS component or plug-in, whatever it is called. In fact QSC is taking the lead on this and they are just now getting started. We are excited about this as I am sure some of you are as well. Here is the thing... There is a lot more to the JNIOR than toggling relays. Many of you use it for other things and we need to make sure that the Q-SYS component supports all of that. For instance, some of you use the 10V expansion modules to generate reference voltages for house light dimming. So, somehow that needs to be a capability in the component. Right? Okay, well what else??? Since we all jump quickly when a customer speaks, it'll go a long way to getting it done if you chime in here and specifically detail the function(s) you need to see (beyond toggling a relay). We've got like a 2 week window. And once that passes, QSC will likely declare the component done. After that adding capabilities won't be impossible but a lot more involved. Let's work together on this. Those of you lurking in the background here, don't let your application get overlooked! Similarly, we here at INTEG will want to refine the JNIOR specifically to work efficiently with houses employing Q-SYS. Once we have the component we can, and will, adapt the JNIOR as needed. Also, many of you are already Q-SYS/JNIOR users. Please raise your hand if you are willing to evaluate the JNIOR Q-SYS component possibly before we are ready to formally serve that wine.  |  IP: Logged Bruce Cloutier Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Gibsonia, PA, USA Registered: Aug 2016 posted 06-19-2019 10:08 AM                        There is a QSC managed JNIOR Component for Q-SYS that will be released in the very near future. We (INTEG) are aiding in the final testing. In concert with this we have released JANOS v1.8. JANOS is the operating system that all Series 4 JNIORs run. With v1.8 we have exposed the JANOS Management Protocol (JMP) on its own TCP/IP Port. This was done specifically to optimize the ability of the Q-SYS platform to integrate with all aspects of the JNIOR. The JMP interface utilizes JSON (json.org) messaging to provide all of the capabilities available both through the legacy JNIOR Protocol and the Websockets interface. The latter is used exclusively by our Dynamic Configuration Pages (with the unfortunate acronym DCP) which as some of you know can control every aspect of the JNIOR. The JMP interface exposes the very same JSON messaging used by our Websockets interface without the need for integration with HTTP and the associated complexity in the elevation of protocols. Those of you who have programmed the parsing of JSON will appreciate that JMP encapsulates the JSON message (object) in a two-element JSON Array. The first element specifies the exact character length of the JSON object supplied as a string in the second element. This then allows you to know in advance the size of the JSON message and to be able to buffer it from a serial source (like TCP) without having to tally curly braces and handle braces appearing in strings or otherwise escaped. All of that is a royal pain with many other interfaces using JSON. Anyway, none of it is proprietary so if you are interested in any of it let us know and we will get you what you need. There is some information available on our website or on JNIOR.COM but Kevin can easily save you a lot of time. We'll let you know when our Q-SYS component is released. Stay tuned.  |  IP: Logged Bruce Cloutier Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Gibsonia, PA, USA Registered: Aug 2016 posted 07-03-2019 03:37 PM                        Considering the time of year I wish that I had a suitable animated GIF for fireworks to add here. QSC has released the JNIOR Control Plugin and it should be available in your Q-SYS Designer Asset Manager! Kevin has worked diligently with QSC in testing this plugin. While we would ourselves push it further to allow all of our usual flexibility for configuring and renaming I/O points it is a very good starting point. I haven't personally worked with it but feel confident that it'll do the job. Feel free to contact Kevin here at INTEG with any questions (you can always email support[at]integpg.com). I am interested in your experiences with this and of course your suggestions should you have any constructive or otherwise. We are very excited to be working closely with QSC on this and in support of our community of overlapping users. You know, the Venn diagram thing.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-03-2019 05:01 PM                     [fireworks]Good deal! [/fireworks]  |  IP: Logged

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