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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Author
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Topic: Harkins Theaters
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 05-19-2019 10:08 PM
They opened a new build theater in Redlands, CA, about two years ago, and it has consistently offered an excellent customer experience compared to most mainstream, cookie cutter 'plexes. My wife and I usually go see a movie there every 1-2 months. The auditoria are always clean and comfortable, the front-of-house areas are well maintained, the staff are very helpful and friendly, there is never any problem finding somewhere to park, pix is sharp, bright and crisply masked, and the sound is well tuned and set to a good level.
They have maintained this quality over two years or so now, so this clearly isn't the "new car smell" effect - Harkins obviously takes maintenance and quality control very seriously.
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Geoff Jones
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 579
From: Broomfield, CO, USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 05-20-2019 10:23 AM
I'm a big fan of Harkins also. I frequent the Cine Capri auditorium at Harkins Northfield in Colorado, and I've had consistently good experiences there. (And after semi-consistently negative experiences at the other big chains in my area, AMC and Regal, I've pretty much stopped visiting those.) Audio-wise, the volume has always been satisfactory and the surround is immersive. My only complaint is that the bass feels a little muddy, but I'm being picky. The image is always sharp and bright.
Harkins runs a great Tuesday Night Classics series, and they have started showing some of them on the big Cine Capri & Cine1 screens. I've had fun introducing my kids to some of my favorite films through this program. I only wish there were more showings, because we often have conflicts.
FWIW, they are very responsive on Twitter. For example, when several chains announced they were showing Saving Private Ryan this summer to commemorate the 75th anniversary of D-Day, I suggested @HarkinsTheatres should do the same thing. They replied that it wasn't in their plan, but would look into it. Less than a month later, it was added to the lineup. (Sadly, on a day where I have a conflict.)
My biggest gripe about Harkins is that they don't have any film capabilities, at least in Colorado. The Cine Capri screen would be a great place to see an the occasional 70MM showing (New Tarantino, Nolan releases, classics, etc.).
quote: Bobby Henderson
The Cine 1 theaters are similar to the Cine Capri houses, but they're not quite as big.
There appear to be two sizes for the Cine 1 auditoriums, "regular" (Chandler & Flagstaff), and "XL" (Mountain Grove, Cerritos, & Estrella Falls). The XL versions look comparable the Cine Capris, at least based on the online seating charts. Which one(s) have you been to, Bobby?
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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006
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posted 05-20-2019 03:33 PM
First of all:
I don't actually go to the movies, since the movies usually come to ME.
However, I spend several weeks in the Phoenix, AZ area several
times a year and am sometimes invited to see a show with the
people I'm visiting, and, not wanting to offend my hosts, I go
along with them, usually to see something I've run months before.
That being said- - the theaters I've wound up at have more often
than not been run by HARKINS, and I must say that despite my
distaste for multiplexes, I've been very impressed by their operation.
Their staff seems well trained & attentive in their duties, and I've
always admired their ability to keep their lobbies, auditoriums, and
especially the rest rooms, quite clean, even on busy weekend nights.
I can't ever remember being dissatisfied with the presentation of any
shows I've seen at Harkins. Picture was clear & bright, and sound was
good. Last year I chatted up one of the staff who agreed to let me take
a look at their booth operations after the show, but I didn't get his name
and I couldn't find him when I went looking later. Mabybe next time.
Overall, they seem to 'run a tight ship' and do a good job of it.
> I was introduced to Dan Harkins at a party several years ago.
Seemed like a nice guy during the few minutes I had to chat with him.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 05-20-2019 06:36 PM
quote: Aron Toplitsky
So the question is, what can one do to make sure the volume is turned up before entering a theater? Would I be one of those annoying patrons if I asked the manager on duty to ensure proper levels were set before showtime?
I think the solution is pretty complicated, unfortunately.
Obviously I'm not an expert on how commercial theater sound systems should be configured. Nevertheless I feel like more than a few corners get cut when a new multiplex theater is first built. The bean counters make some "this is good enough" choices when budgeting the types of speakers, amps, etc that go into the sound system. If a theater's sound system is under-powered for a given room it's obviously going to struggle to still sound good when turned up to reference levels. Audience members get annoyed or fatigued by it and complain. It seems to me a lesser-configured theater sound system will be more prone to suffer problems like blown speakers. So another cost-cutting solution is to turn the sound down to a lower level to save on maintenance costs.
I don't think many commercial theater sound systems are re-tuned very often, if at all, after a theater opens. The EQ settings are more important than overall volume levels. I love movies in theaters to be loud, but not flat across the frequency spectrum. A theater's sound system can peak sub-bass audio at 120db and not damage anyone's hearing. Lower mid range audio can be plenty loud too without it being painful. Obviously high frequency bands need to max out at considerably lower volume levels. It seems like there's a certain art to getting all the levels adjusted so the audio sounds rich, crisp and not shrill yet have enough dynamics to punch you in the chest. But the theater's sound system has to be configured well enough to make that possible. And the theater's staff or chain technicians have to bother to maintain it.
Overall Harkins seems to take some pride in showing off their sound systems. When the OKC Cine Capri was showing film they would play one of several Dolby Digital trailers along with their Cine Capri snipe. During the digital era it's one of the few places I've seen the Dolby Surround 7.1 snipe play. The OKC location usually plays the Dolby Atmos "unfold" trailer before shows. That snipe does a pretty good job showing off the 3D resolution of the sound system.
quote: Geoff Jones
There appear to be two sizes for the Cine 1 auditoriums, "regular" (Chandler & Flagstaff), and "XL" (Mountain Grove, Cerritos, & Estrella Falls). The XL versions look comparable the Cine Capris, at least based on the online seating charts. Which one(s) have you been to, Bobby?
I haven't been to any of the Cine 1 locations. I heard a rumor Harkins is going to build a 2nd Oklahoma City location up in Edmond, but then that goes along with rumors of Alamo Drafthouse building up there. But that would probably be an occasion where I could check out a Cine 1 screen (if they include a Cine 1 screen in a new Harkins build there).
I've been to the Cine Capri in Oklahoma City a bunch of times, dating back to when it was a film-based theater. I remember seeing a Kinoton projector in the booth. I've been to the Cine Capri in Denver a couple times. Both of those Cine Capri houses appear identical in size, they're both quite a bit larger than average. It would have been great if those theaters had 70mm-capable film projectors when they were first built. The Dallas-Fort Worth suburb of Southlake has a Cine Capri screen. That one is not nearly as big as the OKC & Denver houses.
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Scott Norwood
Film God
Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 05-20-2019 07:48 PM
quote: Bobby Henderson
I don't think many commercial theater sound systems are re-tuned very often, if at all, after a theater opens.
It's usually a more-or-less yearly thing, from what I've seen. Not so much because anything has changed, but because it is a simple way to identify problems with the sound system. If there are blown drivers, missing subs, etc., a B-chain will reveal those problems. It should definitely be done if something about the auditorium (new drapes, seats, etc.) changes.
And, no, no one plays movies at a fader setting of "7," since the customer complaints would be a problem. 5.5-6.5 is much more common. With a good room and sound system, one can go higher without generating complaints.
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Mike Blakesley
Film God
Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 05-20-2019 10:25 PM
quote: Scott Norwood
With a good room and sound system, one can go higher without generating complaints.
I'm not so sure about that...it's also a matter of personal taste for people, especially older people. I love a good, loud, booming soundtrack, but I also like the dialogue to sound "natural," not like it's coming out of a rock concert stage.
Our B-chain gets tuned every time our tech visits, and I like to think we have a pretty good 5.1 system, and we get many compliments on our sound, but "7" is most of the time just unnaturally loud in the dialogue. It still sounds good, in fact it's great, but it's just overly loud. So, most movies we play between 5 and 6 somewhere.
A few years ago I saw a film at the Dolby screening room, which probably has one of the finest sound systems in existence, and I thought THAT was too loud. It was great-sounding, but I thought it was too damn loud. I was happy when it was over, in fact.
If it's true that "nobody" is playing movies at the reference level then maybe the reference level needs to change. Maybe 6 should be the new 7.
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 05-21-2019 07:57 AM
"7" is a subjective level that is dependent on MANY factors that a mere SPL meter can't resolve. I've found that the better the system (lower distortion) the higher the volume level can be. That is, if I calibrate two systems using the same test equipment to "85dBc" at -20dBFS, the better system has a better chance of being deemed acceptable at "7" than the inferior system.
At the studios, where cost isn't nearly the same object it is in a commercial cinema, they are going to tend to have better systems and set up with better equipment and listened/judged by people that can hear most all of the subtleties.
Things like acoustics (most theatres don't go beyond putting some fiberglass on the walls behind the drapes...IF THAT, baffle walls (I thought that was just for THX...NO), high quality speakers (3-ways are better than 2-ways? Often not). The better your acoustics, the better your equipment, the higher the level you can play without complaints.
Here is another kicker. If you have a harsh sound system, which will drive the volume down...it will cause the surrounds to appear even quieter. Likely, it wasn't the surrounds that caused the complaints but when you drop your volume by 10dB to overcome a mediocre system, you dropped EVERYTHING by 10dB.
That said, I find most movies are mixed too loud (not all). I think some people at the mixing desk are suffering from over-exposure to high volumes and their ears are fatigued to the point that they are raising the levels to compensate and those of us that may only hear the movie once and are back in the world just get assaulted by the crazy high levels.
Listen to a movie mixed by Larry Blake (many Steven Soderbergh movies like the Oceans series). You can play any of those at "7" on a reasonable system and not fatigue due to the sound.
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 05-21-2019 10:40 AM
quote: Jeff Jones
Harkins runs a great Tuesday Night Classics series, and they have started showing some of them on the big Cine Capri & Cine1 screens.
Interesting - my wife and I go to a lot of those at Redlands, and they are almost always in one of the smaller screens, and sold out. You have to book in advance for them, to be sure of getting in. I'm guessing that they aren't in a larger house because the booking contracts for bigger, first run titles doesn't leave those houses open, but I'm sure that they could expand their classics programming and have a market for it, at that location, at any rate.
Another aspect of their presentation quality is that all those classics shows I've been to are decent studio DCPs of proper remastering or restoration jobs - no BS with 'scope DVDs played letterboxed, as some other chains have done.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 05-21-2019 12:36 PM
quote: William Kucharski
I think all movies should be played at 7, and if patrons find it too loud, complain to the studios.
The only way all movies can be played with the fader at 7 is if the sound system is completely re-tuned each time a different movie plays in that auditorium. As far as I can tell no commercial theater anywhere does that. And they're sure not going to do that if a specific movie is going to play in the theater's best house for only 1 or 2 weeks.
IIRC, Brad Miller said he and other staff at Dallas' GCC Northpark 1-2 theater re-tuned the B-chain specifically for each movie that played there. But this was back during a period where a specific movie could play there for at least a few weeks, if not months. Today, if you want to watch a new movie on a premium screen (IMAX, Dolby Cinema @ AMC or even the Cine Capri theaters we're talking about in this thread) you usually have to catch the movie during its opening weekend. A different movie will usually take over the next Friday (or maybe even earlier).
As others have stated different movies can have differnt levels of loudness and even EQ settings. Back in the 1990's I remember the early DTS mixes from MGM/UA movies being significantly louder and brighter than average. I wondered if it was a studio thing. A test screening I watched of Goldeneye here in Lawton at our then-new Carmike 8 theater was absolutely excruciating during the opening action sequence. This was in a THX house with the fader on the Dolby CP-65 set at 6.5. We had to turn it down to 5.5 for the mix not to be painful. The same house had been playing Seven previously, which sounded awesome. But that was only after they fixed the sound system due to DTS playback not being set up properly; the damned sub-bass audio was going into the surrounds, making the drivers rattle the hell out of the speaker grilles. The theater didn't know about the problem due to not getting any DTS discs with any prints the first few months after it opened.
quote: Scott Norwood
Unfortunately, the get paid by the ticket-buying public. If the ticket-buying public (generally) thinks that the sound is too loud, it is in the interest of the cinema to turn it down to a more reasonable level.
This is why I think it's very critical for a commercial theater not to go on the cheap with its sound system. This isn't a demand for them to install something like Atmos (which costs a shit-ton if you want to configure at Atmos setup correctly). They should set the opening bar at just doing 5.1 surround RIGHT. Better sound system hardware and better room acoustics will allow for more dynamic audio settings without generating nearly as many noise complaints. For instance, the audio at the GCC Northpark 1-2 theater could be very startling with its dynamics, but I never thought the sound was painfully loud. I know THX didn't have a perfect record on managing things, but I still miss it for it trying to at least set some kind of standard. Today there really isn't any standard, at least not an enforceable one. The theater chains call their own shots on it and dollars and "good enough" standards do the deciding on how good something can be.
Now some customers just don't want the audio being dynamic at all. They do want it turned down to low TV speakers volume no matter what. They don't like a sound mix to be dramatic, much less surprisingly dynamic. The problem is if the loudest or most dynamic parts of the movie's sound mix have zero punch to them the "normal" sounding elements like dialog get muffled down to nothing. I've seen plenty of movies where actors are either mumbling their dialog or almost whispering it. That's not bad in a properly tuned and set-up auditorium. If the fader is turned down to TV speakers volume you might as well throw up some subtitles!
quote: Scott Norwood
Part of the problem is with trailers and commercials. These are invariably mixed too loud, and, inexplicably, many cinemas still do not have the means (automation or a human) to re-set the volume for the feature.
Even in the d-cinema age the commercials and trailers are often mixed louder than the feature. Very few theaters bother to adjust for that in their automation controls (if their setups even make that possible). That leads to movies being played at even lower volume levels.
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