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Author Topic: I forgot projectors could switch input resolutions on the fly... William Kucharski Expert Film Handler Posts: 244 From: Louisville, Colorado, United States of America Registered: Oct 2012 posted 06-24-2019 02:41 AM                     I never noticed before Toy Story 4 that the included trailers were 2K, but the feature itself was 4K, e.g.: Onward_TLR-1-2D_S_EN-EN-CCAP_US-GB_51- HI_2K_DI_20190529_DTB_SMPTE_OV Frozen2_TLR-2-2D_S_EN-EN-CCAP_US-GB_51-HI_2K_DI_20190601_DTB_SMPTE_OV ToyStory4_FTR-31-2D_S_EN-EN-CCAP_US-G_51-HI-VI-Dbox_4K_DI_20190523_WDS_SMPTE_OV Yeah, it's an obvious capability when you think of it (looking back, Late Night did this too), but it still caught me off-guard.  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 06-24-2019 05:35 AM                     Well, it's not so much switching resolution. Ever since we're stuck with fixed-pixel imagers, whether it is the LCD or OLED screen in front of you or the DLP, transmissive LCD or LCoS chip in the projector, those machines do nothing more than constantly running at their maximum resolution. If you're running a 4K machine, 2K content simply gets doubled both vertically and horizontally. If you're running 4K DCI content on a 2K machine, the media block just renders the 2K component of the JPEG2K images in there. Back in the days when CRTs (both screens and projectors) where still a thing, we had some real resolution switching going on.  |  IP: Logged Tom Bert Expert Film Handler Posts: 134 From: Belgium Registered: Apr 2010 posted 06-24-2019 09:08 AM                     Is Toy Story 4 distributed in 4K everywhere in US?  |  IP: Logged Jim Cassedy Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1661 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2006 posted 06-24-2019 09:25 AM                     quote: Tom Bert Is Toy Story 4 distributed in 4K everywhere in US? I assume so. All of the drives I've encountered at 4 different venues were all 4k. The Ingest Letters distributed in the US show all the various 2D/3D versions with all the assorted audio permutations as being 4K only. The only version I don't see is one in Dolby Vision™  |  IP: Logged Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 06-24-2019 04:24 PM                        Has anyone else seen issues of one frame of small colored horizontal lines at the end of a CPL when switching either frame rates or resolutions?  |  IP: Logged Bajsic Bojan Expert Film Handler Posts: 190 From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu Registered: Aug 2008 posted 06-26-2019 10:18 AM                     on doremi dcp2000 w/ barco B, we get a black frame between when switching frame rate, sometimes it is accompanied by glitchy looking dots or lines, sometimes not. they are not very noticable and not a lot of them, usually redish or purple in color. on doremi dcp2000 ims w/Barco S, we get the same, black frame, sometimes same kind of glitch. on GDC sx2000 w/NEC NC2000 we got a maybe half second black pause when switching frame rates. no glitch observed. don't think i saw any glitches when switching from 2k to 4k content, but we always have black pattern between, running in 2k mode.  |  IP: Logged Jim Cassedy Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1661 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2006 posted 06-26-2019 02:35 PM                     Projector: NEC 2000C (2k) Serverthingy: Dolby DSS-200 Sometimes I've noticed a small momentary light colored line flash near the bottom of the screen when switching between 2K & 4k (actually it only happens when switching from 2k to 4k content, and not the other way around, if my memory is correct) But it's so quick, and visually on screen it's not much worse than a splice passing through a film projector, so I don't loose too much sleep over it, although on really high-profile screenings or press events especially if there's a prominent director or producer present, I'll usually quickly shove a piece of cardboard in front of the lens just long enough to hide the flash, since it's a manual booth and I'm 'stuck' up there anyway so I might as well earn my keep. (and it's impossible to program a 1 or 2 frame douser open/close command) And yet, in another screening room, with the identical equipment, but which was installed about a year later, I can't ever recall seeing this effect happen. The only technical difference between booths is that only one is equipped for 3D, and I know there are sightly different software versions between the two booths.  |  IP: Logged Martin Brooks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 900 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 06-28-2019 10:22 PM                        quote: The only version I don't see is one in Dolby Vision™ It's playing at Dolby Vision screens in NYC. That doesn't guarantee that the DCP is Dolby Vision, but it usually means that it is. And it's on Dolby's list as being available in Dolby Vision.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 06-29-2019 05:13 AM                     In Europe (and other 25Hz/PAL countries), the DSS200 is known for causing green flashes when switching between 24/25 fps CPLs in an SPL. Bad luck if you have one of those old projectors with dead slow dowsers. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 06-29-2019 08:51 AM                        I think Bajic hit the nail on the head as far as what I've seen with Barcos. I've heard some people say it's when switching color spaces or resolution but I agree that it seems to be frame rate but not all the time. Only certain prices of content show this. It can be a small issue at film festivals or other high profile events with mixed content.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-29-2019 09:42 AM                     Switching frame rate is always where glitches are going to come from. Look at what is happening at the ICP (or equivalent) level. The moment the server changes frame rate, you are going to lose sync with the projector. Mind you, the server's mediablock can have its own issues changing frame rates too which can compound the issue. Until both the server and projector are locked back on the same frequency, unpredictable things can happen. There can/are strategies to minimize it but they would be on the order of blanking the image during the transition and likely would involve adding latency (delay) so that in the event of a frame rate change, before the sync is lost, blank the image. Changing resolution in a DCP should never cause a glitch. The server and projector already know what the resolution of the system is. If you have a 2K system (projector), it is ALWAYS in 2K mode. The server is always extracting the 2K portion of the image in the MXF file and that is what is going to the projector. Conversely, if you have a 4K projector, the server can either send everything as 4K (scale 2K to 4K via a simple 2X in both directions) or the same thing can happen in the projector. You never lose sync so no glitch. the worst that could happen is if the scaling process happens in a non-black frame you could see it pop. Color changes should also never cause a glitch because again, they can happen pretty seamlessly on a CPL transition. There is never loss of sync.  |  IP: Logged Alan Gouger Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 501 From: Bradenton, FL, USA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 06-29-2019 02:07 PM                        If running a mix of 2k and 4k trailers ( Barco 4k with ICMP ) how do you program the needed scaling between trailers?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-29-2019 04:05 PM                     You don't. You're missing how DCPs are encoded. Every server and every projector can handle both 2K and 4K. Since the ICMP handles the "ICP" functions too, it is its choice on where it wants to scale since it both ends of the equation. Either way, it is happening in the ICMP. If the ICMP is in a 2K projector, it will always output 2K regardless of source. If it is in 4K, it will always output 4K, regardless of source. In fact, you have to go out of your way to get it to do anything else since it uses a special "auto" file in the PCF.  |  IP: Logged Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 06-29-2019 08:35 PM                        So how would you handle a festival type situation or a shorts program with content in different frame rates? Re-encode everything?  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 06-30-2019 01:14 AM                     Why would you want to re-encode everything? As long as you don't bring your DSS1000, most common framerates should be supported.  |  IP: Logged

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