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Author Topic: Getting A/V sync right...
Christian Hove
Film Handler

Posts: 41
From: Aalborg, Aalborg, Denmark
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted 09-04-2019 06:46 AM      Profile for Christian Hove   Email Christian Hove   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,
What procedure/tools/test DCPs are you guys using to get A/V sync right (or at least a happy medium)?
From time to time I am experiencing noticeable sync problems (at least to me) - Mostly with old restored films distributed on DCP.
I wonder if I can somehow make our Doremis adjust the A/V sync per film...but I have not been able to find a way to do it.

Thanks,
Christian

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 09-04-2019 07:00 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There's no way to set A/V sync per film/CPL on any server I know. Doremis allow to set a per-CPL audio mapping, but audio delay is not part of that.

Some audio processors allow to specify a delay per preset (e.g. AP20/25). As the Datasat offers loads of free presets, it shouldn't be a problem to make a few copies of existing presets and adjust global delay in them, to be addressed from within SPLs.

I think a CP750 can only adjust global delay per input. However, it may be possible to adjust global delay during runtime using automation commands (cp750.sys.dig_X_global_delay - 'X' for input number). So you could put a suitable delay value into an SPL associated with that CPL. Don't know if that value is applied right away, you would need to test it. The max value of 250ms should be easily discernible during a test.

While it's easy to find proper sync with a test-clip, I'd find it rather complicated to do that with varying live footage (unless the sync is severely off - which I would consider not a sync issue, but a broken DCP). If you take the time sitting in the auditorium and using some remote control option for your processor, it may work out well enough.

- Carsten

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Christian Hove
Film Handler

Posts: 41
From: Aalborg, Aalborg, Denmark
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted 09-04-2019 08:08 AM      Profile for Christian Hove   Email Christian Hove   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Carsten,
Thanks for the reply.
Having AP20s, I will definitely give it a shot to solve it that way.
Which sync test clips are you using - Are there any of them that are downloadable somewhere?

/Christian

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 09-04-2019 08:25 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The cp750.sys.dig_X_global_delay option Carsten mentioned takes immediate effect. I've used this in the past to fix an auto-of-sync DCP. Don't forget to reset it to the original value after you played the content.

The disadvantage of controlling audio delay via your audio processor is that you can only add "positive delay".

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Christian Hove
Film Handler

Posts: 41
From: Aalborg, Aalborg, Denmark
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted 09-04-2019 08:33 AM      Profile for Christian Hove   Email Christian Hove   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is there a similar command for the AP20?

/Christian

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 09-04-2019 09:04 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, but you can create a new format by copying it from the existing format and set the global delay there.

You can then switch the format with the @FORMAT Format Name API command.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-04-2019 10:38 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Marcel,

Since one normally has about 60-80msec of delay (about 2-frames)...you generally have at least that much to advance the audio so I don't see the audio processor method as much of a disadvantage and, like others I don't think most servers allow adjustment during playback (or not easily). And not able to do it via cue.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 09-04-2019 11:01 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd say what you say is true for the average professionally created DCP...

But in reality, it depends on what material you're working with. Professionally made DCPs seldomly have any A/V sync issues, but the DCP format is somewhat of an oddball format for indie producers. They often don't even have the proper tools to test their DCPs themselves, so they just export it or look up some on-line tutorial and are done with it. I actually prefer them to deliver some kind of MP4, MKV or other common format, instead of a DCP with issues.

But as a result, I've seen some crappy productions over the years and some have their audio so much out of sync, it becomes a challenge to get right and yes, I've had one DCP once that had the audio so much off-set to the "negative side" (as in too early), the only way to compensate it was on the server. Sure, that DCP was clearly defective, but sometimes you need to work with the stuff you're handed...

Like Carsten mentioned, getting A/V sync right on "live content" isn't always easy and can be quite a frustrating thing to do. I also tend to look for short sound effects with a high impulse like gunshots, doors closing, etc., as they're far easier to track and time than someones mouth movements.

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Harold Hallikainen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 906
From: Denver, CO, USA
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 09-04-2019 03:50 PM      Profile for Harold Hallikainen   Author's Homepage   Email Harold Hallikainen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A sync pop DCP is available at http://ftp.uslinc.com/Products/LSS-200/Software/TestContent/181211%20-%20LSS200%20Test%20Content%20(cropped)/ . This is designed to work with the LSS-200, so there is a slow flash sequence at the start to start the measurement script in the LSS. You can see some test results at https://lss.hallikainen.org/report.php?db=dfs&tn=1&sn=3 (sync at bottom of page). You can also see a lamp becoming discolored and a few days they forgot to turn on the audio...

Harold

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Christian Hove
Film Handler

Posts: 41
From: Aalborg, Aalborg, Denmark
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted 09-06-2019 01:36 AM      Profile for Christian Hove   Email Christian Hove   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you all for you answers.
As Marcel writes, sometimes we just have to show some DCP without the option to reject it or time to have it remade - In those cases we just want to give the audience the best possible experience.
I will try the DCP Harold links to - Quite a neat setup with the automated tests.

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