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Author Topic: Barco HD-SDI without Enigma? Brandon Belote Film Handler Posts: 8 From: Grand Rapids, Michigan, United States Registered: Jun 2015 posted 09-12-2019 05:37 PM                        Hi all, I've been looking through old forums to find this info and I apologize if it exists somewhere in the cracks of Film-Tech. I'm using Barco DP2K-12C and wondering if the HD-SDI board can still receive an SDI signal without Enigma? I am pretty certain Enigma is for security only, so curious if it could work with unencrypted content. A little more background: RTC lost power during battery change so IMB is going out for re-serialization. In the meantime, looking at options for alternative content to save some showtimes. I'm at a one-screen theater and we don't have backup parts like multiplex houses. I kept the Enigma charged for about four years after installing IMB but I think it went out in the last year. I still have the board so wondering if it could accept unencrypted signal. Otherwise I'm hoping to use content through DVI ports (HDMI from disc player or something). But the Barco is having troubles with DVI communication. I'm assuming the failed ti-link decryptor is interfering with the DVI path. I'll attach self test so you can see. Interestingly, Barco is still looking for IMB even though it's been disconnected. I can communicate with HD-SDI board despite the fact projector seems confused. But no matter what I do to change input file, it seems stuck on Media Block. When I change to DVI, image does appear even though Barco reports the macro as failed. If HD-SDI is no-go, is it safe to run Barco with empty slot? (that is to say, without IMB or HD-SDI boards connected, leaving one open slot) Thanks in advance.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 09-12-2019 07:30 PM                     What type of content would you play over HD-SDI? Don't you think DVI/HDMI would be better for alternative content? In general, you use the HD-SDI inputs with unencrypted content if you bypass the Enigma board. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Brandon Belote Film Handler Posts: 8 From: Grand Rapids, Michigan, United States Registered: Jun 2015 posted 09-12-2019 07:51 PM                        Distributed content would definitely be on disc. But anything else might be easiest with SDI. I can run SDI content from a Mac machine, outputting video feed with a Blackmagic video card. It's higher bit depth than HDMI so more accurate color representation and no banding. We use it for previewing DCP content during DCP creation. It would work for trailers and short film showcases where filmmakers submit Quicktime formats. We have a couple showcases coming up and it would be much easier to run from Mac than from disc player.  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-12-2019 08:07 PM                     To change to an IMB you need to install a clone with the required input files. The SDI ones should still be there, but they can be deleted if the tech decides they won't be needed again. Installing an SDI base clone will probably help but you should first pull a full clone to reinstall once your IMB comes back. When switching between SDI/IMB/ICMP on a projector I just install the matching base clone to avoid any trouble. The preset buttons get revised to work with whatever card is there - some factory layout. You can try removing the Enigma and seeing what happens, I think you need to deselect cinema processing in the macro somewhere to avoid it wanting the Enigma for SDI? I have not tried this though.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-13-2019 06:53 AM                     The only way to bypass the Enigma on a Barco (That I know) is using the Post Production version of Communicator AND it does not survive a power cycle. I don't recall if, with a failed, enigma if the SDI will pass non-encrypted video or not. You CAN run the projector without the HDSDI board (slot completely open) but it will take about twice as long to boot up as it searches for a board to be in that slot. You'll eventually get a green tail light (truth be told, it is the board in that slot that determines the tail light status from a security standpoint since it is the "Security Manager." DVI ports will work. If you have a lot of SDI sources, there are SDI to DVI/HDMI adapters out there. Not ideal but neither is being down.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-13-2019 07:18 AM                     Can't you power that slot down like you can on an NEC? Mark  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-13-2019 07:35 AM                        SDI will play unencrypted video. As others have pointed out, you'll need to apply the "with Enigma" base clone (having first taken a clone package of your projector, configured as you use it, with the IMB in it), or manually install the ".input" files from it using the file manager function in Commmunicator (in installation > advanced). Without the Enigma card present, you'll get an error message 5830 ("I can't see an Enigma card"), but the projector will still play unencrypted HD-SDI. I know this, because I installed a DP4K-19B at a post house in June. They only wanted to use it with an Avid system, and so bought it without an Enigma card on the quad 3G-SDI board. Forgive my Russian, but I simply could not get that fucking error message to go away whatever I did, neither could anyone at Rancho Cordova figure out how, and neither could anyone in Kortrijk that they passed the case along to. The customer, not unreasonably, refused to sign off on the installation of a projector with a red tail light, even though the error did not affect the functionality of it for their purposes at all. In the end, Belgium suggested replacing the backplane. Now, this projector is 10 feet off the ground in a pod, most of which was built around it after the projector was lifted up into it. Only the card cage and lamphouse side is easily removable. So, given the logistical problems involved with that, we decided to give them an Enigma card (thankfully, we have a ton of them sitting on chargers: likely many more than we'll ever sell, given that the use of old school servers with HD-SDI media blocks is now in terminal decline), even though they'll never need its functionality. But the short version is that, yes, an SDI board with no Enigma card on it will still play unencrypted video.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-13-2019 07:56 AM                     quote: Leo Enticknap given that the use of old school servers with HD-SDI media blocks is now in terminal decline) Don't tell Guttag that! He may have to go find other work.  |  IP: Logged Brandon Belote Film Handler Posts: 8 From: Grand Rapids, Michigan, United States Registered: Jun 2015 posted 09-13-2019 01:57 PM                        All great info. Confirming I did test running without any card installed and Steve is right that it takes twice as long for boot up. But this is actually same issue as dead Enigma. Projector spends twice as long on boot either way. I did try Dave's suggestion to remove Enigma. Enigma has been removed from SDI board. However I'm not sure what you mean about the input files for Enigma. I still have the original SDI input files, but from what I'm reading it sounds like there may be different input files designed to work with Enigma? I'm attaching a screen grab of the current list of input files so you can see what I'm looking at.  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-13-2019 04:27 PM                     You can spend a while modifying macros but I think it's easier to just install the SDI base clone. Take a full clone first to revert to so the IMB works as expected. Yes there are SDI input files... but are they the same as for the SDI input board, or different for the IMB SDI inputs? I don't know. My advice: go for the SDI clone and save yourself a lot of pain. If you don't have it and don't have access to it... call Barco support and they will probably send a link, or I can send it to you.  |  IP: Logged Brandon Belote Film Handler Posts: 8 From: Grand Rapids, Michigan, United States Registered: Jun 2015 posted 09-13-2019 06:22 PM                        Thanks Dave. I did follow Steve's advice and bypassed the link decryptor using Communicator Post Production. I am able to get image onscreen. That should mean the original SDI input files are still good. The problem is that the bypass shuts off as soon as any input settings are changed, like calling up a new macro. Without the bypass, I've been unable to get an image to show up. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems to rule out improper input files, improper SDI connections, improperly formatted SDI signal, and faulty source content. Just for sake of information: the different inputs from Media Block are activated through the Doremi OS, using Control Panel/Device Controller. I've never seen SDI input options for the IMB in Communicator. Since the IMB is offline I can't look at the options, but the different SDI input files you see above are not part of the IMB input. The fact I'm getting image onscreen should prove that, but also the input files are activating SDI inputs A, B or A+B for Dual Link (I can see the LEDs changing on the HD-SDI board/inputs to indicate which are active). Plus, the input settings can be changed in communicator and I see the files switching input to HD-SDI options. I know I'm posting a lot of screen captures but they seem to show more than my words. All that said, I currently have the Enigma module removed from HD-SDI board and achieved a temporary image. However, the bypass is unreliable as it would need to be manually selected every time macro is called. I'm still hoping to find a more reliable way to do this, based on Leo's response. I did email service at Barco for their advice, but I've yet to hear back.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-14-2019 10:24 AM                     I've survived Mark. I did use SDI based systems from Dolby, GDC and Doremi...up until each discontinued them. I still feel they were more reliable and I prefer a server that doesn't care if the projector is turned off or not. However, IMB/IMS systems are here to stay and that is what we have to deal with. The Dolby/Doremi IMS servers from the IMS2000 onward are better able to deal with the sudden power down...the IMS1000 was NOT. GDC's SX2000AR could deal with it though they didn't recommend it for the fea that there MAY be a write happening during the sudden power off. I don't know the particulars of the SX-3000/4000 or the SR-1000. Since we use the Eprad eCNA automations on just about all installations, we automate the shutdown (and wake up) so everything happens in the right order and with enough time for a graceful shutdown. I feel like we've gone backwards in robustness and ease of use. Even alternative content is awkward with all but the ICMP (which also doesn't need a "Shutdown." It was much better to switch to DVI inputs than to come up with one of the convolved ways of switching to the HDMI inputs (again, except the ICMP where the HDMI inputs are another source...that said, you CAN'T start a DCP if the HDMI inputs are still active).  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-14-2019 02:12 PM                     You can run a playlist with HDMI selected. You need black at the head with a cue to change to server input. Server black pattern, not a DCP black... so this won't work with some TMS systems that can't include server black in a CPL.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 09-14-2019 02:54 PM                     A lot of these hints are hidden in the Barco Commander manual. Many miss this, as probably few users actually use the Barco Commander application, thus they don't bother reading the Barco Commander manual or checking for updates. Barco Commander user manual occurs to be the actual user manual for the ICMP. The trouble is, you have to re-read it often completely when an update is released, unfortunately, there is no changelog in the manual itself. --- Playback while alternative input selected The user has two possibilities: 1. He can load and play CPL/SPLwhile an alt input is selected. Two behaviors are possible depending on the type of content currently playing: • Black clip: A black clip can be played when an alt. input is selected. • Other content: An error is triggered if the player try to play something else than a black clip. The error is cleared if the media player input is selected or if the user change position (error is triggered when trying to play and cleared when another action is done) Note: The ICMP cannot know which macro to execute in order to activate the media player. The user needs to put a cue in a black clip to switch to the media player before a CPL. 2. He can switch to an alt input when a play is ongoing. Two behaviors are possible depending on the type of content currently playing: • Black clip: player is not stopped but error can be triggered if the player needs to play CPL (see section above). • CPL: Player is stopped and alternative input is selected. --- There are also alternative input clips in the showlist editor. BTW - our Sony continues playing DCP invisibly when switching to any oft its two HDMI inputs or back. Transition on screen is clean. Unlike the Barco, however, the Sony won't even start playing an SPL if the bulb(s) is not lit. Every manufacturer has his own ideas on preferred behaviour... I would imagine they want to avoid dark screens. However, then, consequently, they should not build dowsers in... - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Brandon Belote Film Handler Posts: 8 From: Grand Rapids, Michigan, United States Registered: Jun 2015 posted 09-14-2019 03:37 PM                        As an indie theater running all kinds of inputs, I can verify that our Doremi IMB will eject out SPL as soon as input is switched away from internal server feed. When I switch to SDI or HDMI, SPL is ejected immediately. I've also noticed CineLister may stall when starting up the next SPL since it force ejected the previous. That's only for inputs on the IMB. Switching to DVI inputs on our Barco will not affect SPLs since it is external to the IMB. Back to HD-SDI issue though, still looking for any ideas on a consistent fix. Message to Barco will likely not receive response until Monday.  |  IP: Logged

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