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Author Topic: House Lights Integration Justin DEntremont Film Handler Posts: 7 From: Campbellton, NB, Canada Registered: Jul 2018 posted 10-19-2018 02:55 PM                     Hi Everyone. I'm wondering if some of you can shed some light on what you use for house light control and automation/integration with the projection system. Currently have a cinema with 3 screens, and the "lighting automation" at the moment consists of yelling across the lobby to get someone to open a breaker panel and flip the breaker to turn on the lights in a given auditorium. For what it's worth, servers here are all Doremi, and projectors all Christie. Ideally I'm looking for something that I can also integrate with the burglar alarm / access control system that will shut off every light inside the building upon arming the system on the way out at the end of the night, and be able to turn every light on in the event of an intrusion. But that's just icing on the cake. At the end of the day what I really need is a solutions so that I can control the lights in the auditoriums using cues in the Doremi playlist. Preferably I'd like install something that I can control via IP. Reason being, the circuits for the lighting are all run back to a central electrical room, and the 3 cinema servers are all quite far away (from the electrical room, as well as each other). Each cinema system is on the IP network, and there is connection available in the electrical room. This would save me from running hundreds of feet of communications wire for GPIO style contact closure, or rerouting the high voltage wiring. I've looked into the Lutron Caseta, Lutron RadioRA2 and Lutron Grafik Eye QS systems. While they're technically residential type systems (with the exception of the GE-QS), each one of these appears to allow control via IP using Telnet, though I'm not sure if the Doremi's would be able to send the commands. Would using a "RAW" connection be able to accomplish this? If not, is there an external device that can act as a middle man that I can use to translate RAW commands from the Doremi into telnet commands expected by the lighting system. Are there any suggestions on a better way to accomplish this, or better equipment that I should be looking at? Preferably in a way that isn't going to bankrupt me, and won't require me to rip out and/or fish a whole bunch of wiring, but everything is on the table for now.  |  IP: Logged Ken Lackner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1907 From: Atlanta, GA, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 10-25-2018 09:15 AM                     There are house dimmers that have Ethernet control available, so I hear. I have never used one. That would probably be your best bet. Hopefully others can chime in here with recommendations for actual products. Do you have an automation system (ACT, JNIOR, eCNA, etc...) for each auditorium? Typically the dimmer would be controlled from the automation, although the Doremi does have a GPIO and, yes, can send Ethernet commands by setting up a RAW devices in the Device Manager. This topic is better suited for the Digital Cinema forum.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 10-25-2018 06:06 PM                     What kind of 'lights' do you have in your auditoriums? I understand you do nit only want to control (ultimately, dim) the auditorium lights, but also the general house lights? - Carsten  |  IP: Logged David Buckley Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 525 From: Oxford, N. Canterbury, New Zealand Registered: Aug 2004 posted 10-25-2018 07:42 PM                        Alternatively, you could put a Jnior where the electric panels are, and use conventional dimmers with contact-close control. The advantage of this is that it is a solution known to work, and no additional wiring needed.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 10-25-2018 08:01 PM                        We have Kelmar dimmers at our place. They work with contact closures or logic "grounds". Something like that would eliminate having to yell across the room. As for the rest: Our indoor house had switches in the lobby that operated contactors. These operated contactors that would bypass the dimmers and put full power to the lights. The intent was for cleaning the auditoriums, but you could get creative with the idea. I think most new construction or renovation requires that the fire alarm has some connection to bring up the house lights. Attaching a relay to the siren line of a burglar alarm could do the same thing.  |  IP: Logged Buck Wilson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 894 From: St. Joseph MO, USA Registered: Sep 2010 posted 10-25-2018 10:45 PM                     Everything you mentioned sounds quite do-able, my first thought was also the JNIOR. The owner of the company is on these forums and would likely be happy to help you set it all up  |  IP: Logged Bruce Cloutier Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Gibsonia, PA, USA Registered: Aug 2016 posted 11-16-2018 11:56 AM                        I routinely check the digital Cinema forum and just happened to notice this post. The JNIOR has been successfully used to accommodate house light dimming as well as the integration of fire alarm systems. You can call Rick at INTEG 1-724-933-9350 and he can work through the details with you. I think in a lot of cases where theaters have "upgraded" to LED fixtures the JNIOR with an expansion module is used to generate the 10V reference signal for dimming. That can be commanded by the media system. If you have incandescent lighting and have used AC dimmers Rick may be aware of the approach other integrators have used. I would bet that you can get drop in dimmers that accept the 10V reference signal. We should work on this with you as it is a capability that we definitely intend to provide.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-16-2018 05:02 PM                     There is a company in Hollywood or Burbank that makes a DMX to relay interface that can be used to control a dimer requiring a contact closure. I have used their stuff in the past and it is fully programmable and it works well. I used a lot of their stuff back in the days of D-Cinema before there was any projector/server control over ethernet. It's an odd name and as soon as I remember it I will post the info. Mark  |  IP: Logged Harold Hallikainen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 906 From: Denver, CO, USA Registered: Aug 2009 posted 11-16-2018 05:07 PM                        Was it Doug Fleenor Design ( http://www.dfd.com/ ). Also, I used to design DMX products for http://www.dovesystems.com . Harold  |  IP: Logged Bruce Cloutier Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Gibsonia, PA, USA Registered: Aug 2016 posted 11-17-2018 10:03 AM                        I can show you how to put a JNIOR on a DMX network and then do just about anything but that is not what Justin is asking about. There are some theaters that in replacing their incandescent house lighting chose to use DMX LED fixtures. It does provide a wide range of options for dimming and using color. We run into people who have tried to replace their incandescent bulbs with "dimmable" LED replacements. They quickly find out that while the brightness of these can be dimmed with the standard AC dimmer it is not at all linear. I had a long conversation with a couple of guys at a recent trade show about that. You can replace the fixtures with LED fixtures. Each of those has to have its own power supply which is designed for the type of LEDs. You need the version of those that take a 10V reference signal for dimming. The JNIOR with a 10V expansion module can then be used to dim the lights. While not designed for recess mounting, DMX lighting could be a very interesting option. The 412DMX JNIOR is available for that. And, naturally, there are other products out there to generate the signals for you. I am jut not aware of a standard AC dimmer that takes any 10V reference. That doesn't mean that it isn't out there. But we are not talking about your standard dining room dimmer. But if we need some unique solution to this, we could pull it off. Rick would know how others might have solved the problem. I'll ask him during the week.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 11-17-2018 09:43 PM                     Kelmar makes a 10v dimmer option for LEDs. You just have to ask. I've installed a number of them and they work quite well.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-18-2018 01:39 PM                     Eprad is coming out with an LED system for their dimmers. You change the output of the dimmer to their LED driver output (low-voltage) and use their lamps but retain existing wiring. The net result are seemingly pretty cheap lamps that dim to zero and use traditional cinema automations. And, if you have the EPRAD dimmer already, converts as fast as you can change the lamps and the output board.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-18-2018 03:04 PM                     quote: Harold Hallikainen Was it Doug Fleenor Design Nope, but I have also used their products and they are very good.  |  IP: Logged Justin DEntremont Film Handler Posts: 7 From: Campbellton, NB, Canada Registered: Jul 2018 posted 11-10-2019 04:21 AM                     1 year later. I took the plunge and had all the switches replaced with Lutron RadioRA2 dimmer switches (http://www.lutron.com/en-US/products/Pages/components/radiora2digitalfadedimmer/overview.aspx?pgid=41), and got the wireless hub that goes with them (http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/Main_Auxiliary%20Repeaters_369-227a.pdf). So I've had some success, but hit a bit of a brick wall. Attempt 1: Initially I'd thought I'd be able to control this directly from the Doremi servers via IP (the main hub supports Telnet), but I had no luck there as there's a login required via telnet before you can issue commands. No go. Attempt 2: I have a JNIOR and this thing has a serial connection. Connected them together with a "straight through" serial cable, and configured the JNIOR to talk to it using "TCP-to-Serial". No go. Attempt 3: Turns out that the "straight through" serial cable I was sold was packaged wrong, and was actually a "null modem" cable. Went out and got a null modem adapter to turn the null modem cable back into a straight through cable. At this point, I can use PuTTY and login to port 9201 on the JNIOR and issue commands successfully. (e.g. "#OUTPUT,12,1,0,2" ). The dimmers respond as they should, and if I'm also telnet directly into the Lutron hub at the same time, I can see the commands being excecuted / it's response to the commands, which is the same I see via raw TCP from the JNIOR. I have a device in my Doremi setup as RAW IP, pointing to the IP of the JNIOR, and port 9201. Now when I try to issue commands from the Doremi (e.g. "#OUTPUT,12,1,0,2 \r" ), not a damn thing happens. Doremi reports that the command has been issued successfully, but there's no response of any kind on the Lutron system. I know the commands are right, as if I connect the Lutron box to a Doremi via serial, the same commands work without a problem. I've tried prepending a \w (wait) to the beginning of the command like I've had to do with my JSD-80 when controlling it via IP and that doesn't help either. Anyone have any ideas? Currently just have it directly connected via serial to one auditorium, which is nice, for that single screen. I have two more I need to control as well.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-10-2019 01:49 PM                     Is the JNIOR set up as a pass-through or something? If not, how is it supposed to respond to a Lutron command? I have controlled a Lutron GrafixEye dimmer that has a QSE I/O module. Yes, it did ask for a password but I just concanted the command so it issued the password<cr> and then the command. In my case, I was using #DEVICE commands to recall scenes. I used an Eprad eCNA on my installation but it should work directly from the Doremi (and ALWAYS use the \w prefix on Doremi...it never hurts and seemingly always helps).  |  IP: Logged

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