Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Do you play trailers in digital if the feature is analog?

Topic Closed

my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

This topic has been transferred to this forum: Film Handler's Forum.

»	Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE » Operations » Ground Level » Do you play trailers in digital if the feature is analog?

Author

Topic: Do you play trailers in digital if the feature is analog?

Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 10-03-2002 10:49 AM

We have a running debate at our theater that pops up from time to time, and I wanted to float it here for discussion. It's our theater's corporate policy that all trailers are supposed to be played in digital sound if possible. But my feeling is that the trailers shouldn't sound better than the feature. Especially our Feature Presentation snipe (which is the last thing they see before the feature) can end up being 8 Channel SDDS if played in the right auditorium, then to drop down to a four channel analog mix - I don't know. To me, that seems like a distraction. But I will concede that most patrons either a) won't notice it, or b) will notice it but forget it in about 60 seconds. Any thoughts?

| IP: Logged

Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 10-03-2002 10:54 AM

I would not do that.

Nothing should look or sound better than the feature. For the same reason, I do not encourage showing scope trailers before a flat movie.

Occasionally, there are exceptions but not many.

| IP: Logged

David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 10-03-2002 10:55 AM

I strongly prefer that the trailers be played in digital sound, with one possible caveat: They must not be so loud that they cause audience complaints that result in the overall sound level being dropped to a point that is then too low for the feature. Get the volume right for the feature, and if a few people complain that the trailers are too loud, ignore them and/or tell them the volume will be correct when the feature starts.

| IP: Logged

Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 10-03-2002 11:09 AM

But even if the faders are set at somewhat similar levels, the sound is considerably 'brighter' for lack of a better word. I agree that they shouldn't be louder than the feature, which is often unavoidable, but I don't think the sound field should be significantly better either. If that happens to me while I'm watching a movie, the first thing I think is that something didn't switch over correctly, or there's some kind of a problem. That's just my thoughts, anyway.

| IP: Logged

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 10-03-2002 11:38 AM

IMHO, you should play all films in the best available sound format for that auditorium. First, why not give the audience the best sound available for everything shown? Second, it reminds the audience that the theatre is equipped for digital sound. If the feature has a lesser format (analog stereo or even mono) than some of the trailers, so be it. If anyone complains, explain that that was the choice of the filmmakers, and not a deficiency of the theatre sound system.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

| IP: Logged

Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 10-03-2002 11:56 AM

I'd just play them all analog- the trailers are so damned loud already (even in analog) that you would have to ride the fader between analog and digital programs even more-

If you prefer to do so, go ahead and run them, in the digital format of your choice, with SDDS being the sole exception:

Why not SDDS?
Running the SDDS reader during the analog feature does nothing but wear out the very expensive LED arrays in the reader, since they are running without any purpose after the trailer pack has passed thru.
Unless of course you turned off the SDDS processor (this action can apply to DTS processors and Dolby penthouse readers as well) at the beginning of the feature, which shuts the reader down saving its LEDs.

-Aaron

| IP: Logged

Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-03-2002 12:13 PM

I always play trailers in analog. When possible, I also lower the fader setting for trailers and raise it for the feature. Of course, the feature (and any shorts) should be played in the best available sound format for which the theatre is equipped.

I agree with Manny--nothing should look or sound better than the feature, with the possible exception of running 1.85 trailers before a 1.33 feature.

On the other hand, I might be able to be convinced to run trailers in digital if they weren't mixed so darn loud. This has improved in recent years, but is still a problem.

| IP: Logged

Rachel Gilardi
Madam Moderator

Posts: 2214
From: Peabody, MA, USA
Registered: Dec 2007

posted 10-03-2002 01:13 PM

I always play trailers on a movie w/o digital in analog. I would prefer the trailers didn't sound better then the feature. Some people in my theater show the trailers in digital, just depends on who is upstairs that particular day. It's all a matter of preference.

| IP: Logged

Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 10-03-2002 01:24 PM

That's what we're running into. Most in our booth I dare say don't even check the print to see what sound is on it, they don't move the DTS disks around when necessary, etc. I'm planning on having a training day for sound for our booth folks, and this is one thing I plan to bring up. I wanted to see if there was a concensus here one way or the other what was best, and clearly there isn't one! Which is just as well. I may end up leaving the decision to them as long as they understand the pros and cons of each side. Right now they don't. Or we may set up a policy. Not sure yet. Thanks for the feedback!

| IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 10-03-2002 01:29 PM

Assuming your analog A-chain is aligned properly, there shouldn't be much difference in tonal quality from digital to SR. I don't mind playing trailers in digital, but I greatly prefer to set up a custom format and disable the subwoofer for them. Action movies aside, frequently the most agressive part of a movie experience IS those trailers. I have found consistently that *most* customers do not want to be blown away at the trailers, especially when they are coming to a drama or comedy movie (pretty much anything non-action/non-horror). They get up and complain because they are worried the feature will rip their ears off. I am a strong advocate of playing trailers at the same volume you would watch the evening news or a tv sitcom at. Playing them in SR also just happens to help.

BTW you mentioned your feature prez snipe was in SDDS-8. That tells me your company has a LOT of SDDS units (and it also tells me where you work). Because of this, Aaron's point of saving the leds really does have merit. I used to put a rubber band over the closed pad rollers on the SDDS reader head (2000 series model) as a signal to the operators that this movie was not in SDDS and not to thread it, or I would turn off the unit and put a piece of tape over the power button labeled "film not in sdds". Over the course of a few years, I'm quite certain I bought the company a solid 6 months of extra led time on their units. I doubt they truly appreciated my extra trouble, but it DID save them money.

This also really doesn't belong in this forum. Moving.

| IP: Logged

Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 10-03-2002 01:33 PM

I've debated this subject too- it's my opinion that everything should be played in the proper sound format, so if you have trailers in digital sound played before a movie in analog mono, so be it. I have several DVDs (from MGM) of older movies which first play the new MGM Home Video intro in 5.1, then switch to mono for the actual movie. In theatres I've always preferred to run the trailers in digital even if the feature isn't (or if it's in a format the theatre doesn't have) because at least the digital system that IS there is being used. I'd run color trailers before a black-and-white movie too. The volume level of the trailers shouldn't be louder than the movie though; it usually isn't too much trouble to just manually turn the volume down for the trailers then turn it up for the feature. CP-500's can be programmed to do this automatically too.
And if Steve is reading this

I don't consider it the same as combining flat and scope in the same show, because the masking should not change when customers are there to see it- you don't see the speakers folding up when changing sound formats!

| IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

Printer-friendly view of this topic

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.