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Author Topic: Maintaining & Cleaning Pepsi Soda Fountain Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-09-2003 12:40 PM                     I have never been happy with the way Pepsi tastes down here. Some time back we switched to using purified water delivered weekly from the bottled water company and that hasn't really made the difference we hoped for. The theatre owner told me that he just got a refractometer so we can adjust our mix ratio and I think that's really where the problem is. I suspect that the guys at Pepsi here don't know what the ratio is supposed to be. I brought back a can of Pepsi from Florida and did an A/B taste test to prove that I wasn't imagining things. There is a vast difference in flavor. What is the ratio in the U.S.? Because that is the flavor I'm trying to duplicate. While we are at it -- I would be interested in hearing about the best ways to clean the lines. That could be part of the problem here (dirty/clogged syrup lines). What solutions do you use and how many parts of this and that. Please tell me everything you can because this is driving me crazy down here. I just know we could sell more Pepsi if we could get it to taste good.  |  IP: Logged Jonathan M. Crist Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 531 From: Hershey, PA, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 09-09-2003 02:31 PM                     I have Coke but it should work the same way. I have a bag-in-the-box system with fast flow valves. You need to get a seperator/tester kit. I believe the kit costs about $14.00 and is available from most distributors. Maybe your supplier may even give you one for free. The first thing that you do is take off the screw ring and attach the seperator to the spiggott. The seperator will divide the flow into water and syrup. Inside the dispenser head there are two screws - one is for water and one is for syrup. Then you need to turn off the syrup and measure the water output so that it hits the designated line on the water side of the test recepticle within 4 seconds. Then you turn on the syrup. The syrup goes into the syrup side of the test recepticle and the water also goes into the water side. You are to keep turning the syrup up until it comes out in equal portions to the water for the test. It usually takes several tries until you get it. One other thing that really effects the taste of BIB soda is the carbination. The dispenser must be cold enough. If it is not cold enough the carbonation disapates too quickly and the soda will taste flat. If yours is an electric coutner dispenser with the compressor built in then it must run at least five hours before dispensing to allow an ice pack to form in the machine. If yours is a drop-in with the ice bin used for cooling the lines the same thing applies - the ice must be put in the bin for a sufficent time to cool the thing way down before you dispense the soda. Otherwise the soda will not hold the carbination.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-09-2003 02:42 PM                     The last paragraph above is really the big key. The ice bins should never be allowed to get lower than 1/3 at worst, my general rule is 1/2 full. Personally I find only the counter electrics truly put out a good tasting product. As far as the mix goes in Pepsi, I forget what it is, but I know it is printed on the BIB.  |  IP: Logged Robert Golding Film Handler Posts: 65 From: Sutter, CA, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 09-09-2003 05:54 PM                     The mix ratio's for pepsi is: 5 to 1 for regular and 5 1/2 to 1 for diet. You must always keep ice on the cold plate or it will brick wrong. If the product has sugar it's alway 5 to 1, all diet flavors are 5 1/2 to 1. It's important to have cubed ice for these mix ratio's to work. If you are using crushed ice increase mix by 1/2. reg pepsi would be 5 1/2 to 1 and diet 6 to 1  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-10-2003 12:15 AM                     The tool I have here is a hand refractometer and the way it works is you place a few drops of whatever solution onto a prism and then you get a Brix Percentage when you look at a scale through the viewfinder. Distilled water at 20ºC will read 0% and there's a small screwdriver to calibrate, if needed. I see this as a probelm because the drink will be coming out at a colder temperature than that. Isn't 20ºC something like room temperature? I have to wonder if this is the right tool for the job. The training video I remember seeing showed the little gadget that connects to the nozzle and collects the syrup and water separately, as described earlier in this thread. Could this refractometer actually be a cool, high-tech approach? Or is it a hunk o' junk? And what about cleaning out these syrup lines? Any suggestions on cleaning agents and methods? [ 09-10-2003, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Manny Knowles ]  |  IP: Logged R. Andrew Diercks Expert Film Handler Posts: 232 From: Marion, Iowa (In the middle of everywhere) Registered: May 2003 posted 09-10-2003 12:18 AM                     Strangely enough, they do not mix fountain and can to taste the same, or so a friend that is a Pepsi tech informed me. They want a "fountain taste". Canned Coke also tastes much different than fountain or bottled. The mix tester is the only way to check, not taste test of products.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-10-2003 12:34 AM                     I believe you...and I think that's just plain dumb. Why the HECK should fountain soda have to taste different than canned (or bottled) soda? On second thought, don't answer that; I really don't want to get distracted by discussing whatever rationale there might be for this. Trust me when I tell you there is something very wrong with the Pepsi down here and it's not an imagined problem. I only hope it's not a problem with the way Pepsi makes the syrup because then it would be totally beyond my control. I just want this Pepsi to taste like the real Pepsi...even if I have to settle for "Fountain Pepsi." Fountain Dew, anyone? By the way, I found a link that has photos and descriptions of the refractometer... Atago Hand Refractometers The model I have is N-1EBx and the range is suitable for taking soft drink measurements. [ 09-10-2003, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Manny Knowles ]  |  IP: Logged Ron Keillor Expert Film Handler Posts: 166 From: Vancouver, B.C. Canada Registered: Jul 2003 posted 09-10-2003 01:14 AM                     Do you have Root Beer (or Sarsasparilla) on line in the system? That flavour is notorious for spreading and the only solution is the regular replacement of all tubing. If the tubing gets warm, another contamination could be mould, and rinsing with a light bleach solution, then clear water would help.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-10-2003 10:41 AM                     No root beer here...sadly. A light bleach solution is...how much bleach, how much water? Okay that's one suggestion -- any others?  |  IP: Logged Zach Zagar Film Handler Posts: 45 From: Jefferson City, MO Registered: Mar 2000 posted 09-10-2003 12:50 PM                        Before you get the bleach out and risk killing anyone, you can try just rinsing it with warm water first. Just get a clean bucket or pitcher or something, put the connector that goes to the bag in box, and go out to the fountain and hold down the syrup lever (inside the head of each flavor, usually). Let it run clear, hot water for a bit. That should get most syrup out (which I'm guessing in most cases is what would be in the line before anything else).  |  IP: Logged Adam Fraser Master Film Handler Posts: 499 From: Houghton Lake, MI, USA Registered: Dec 2001 posted 09-10-2003 01:49 PM                        Our pepsi guy uses the refractometer to adjust the brix so I think you have the right tool, with Coke they gave us the brixing cup. Any chance calling Pepsi and asking them what they suggest?  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 09-10-2003 04:56 PM                        Manny, you may have two problems. Correct me on this, but isn't the refractometer reading based on sugar content? That wouldn't be consistent between flavors, and wouldn't be valid at all for diet drinks, most (if not all) of which use artificial sweeteners. The separator method, I'd think, would be the best way to go. As Bob says, most drinks are brixed at 5 parts water to one part syrup, and a split brix cup is calibrated for this purpose. The 5 (or 6) to one ratio used to be printed on the syrup boxes. I haven't checked in a long time though, so that may no longer be the case. The brix specifications are for service over cubed ice. If you're serving a drink with no ice, a little less syrup would be appropriate. Shaved or flaked ice might take a little more. One big problem I see from your post is your drink temperature. By dispensing a drink at room temperature, you're losing a lot of carbonation. Pouring that drink into a glass of ice would be watering a relatively flat drink down, compounding the problem. Even adding syrup wouldn't help... you'd just have a properly mixed drink without the carbonation you're looking for. The Coke specs I've seen literally insist that the water/syrup mix at the FOUNTAIN HEAD should be no higher than 42 degrees Farenheit. 36 degrees is close to the ideals the service people try for up here. If you pour a drink into an empty cup & the temperature is above 42, brixing won't fix the problem. If your machine isn't refrigerated (which it sounds like it's not), you should have a cooling plate at the bottom of your ice machine or bin. All of your syrup lines should be going through it... even your water, though that doesn't usually happen. The lines from the cooling plate to the fountain head should be insulated. The syrup needs to be fed through the system at a consistent temperature, because temperature affects syrup viscosity, which determines the stability of your brixing adjustments (and therefore, your syrup/water ratio). Syrup lines can become contaminated over time, but especially if you've ever changed flavors. Going from a strong flavor like Coke or Root Beer to something relatively light, like Sprite or 7-Up is tough without replacing the syrup lines. When we close our drive-in for the season, we flush out our lines with a water/sanitizer solution that's made for the beer tap lines in bars. That seems to have eliminated any tainting of flavors that might be caused by the syrup lines. In any case, some lines just get old & funky. Coke and Pepsi are usually pretty good about replacing them, usually for nothing. Clean lines mean good drinks and more sales. It's in their best interests to help you out there. Get that water temperature down though. You'll notice a big difference, once you do. Also, check the CO2 pressure to your carbonator. It should be between 90 & 100 psi. I've seen installations as high as 110 psi, which turn out dandy drinks, but foamy root beer. Risking a comparison flame here, I'd recommend you use poly-coated cups (or plastic or glass). A second choice would be waxed (if your customers won't be hanging on to them long enough for them to get soggy). Styrofoam cups will hold temperature longer & the lids tend to be tighter, but something about the styro (porous surface?) releases a lot of CO2. Your drinks will be foamy, increasing dispensing time & lowering carbonation. Finally, be careful how close you expect a fountain drink to compare with one from a can or bottle. Carbonation levels are MUCH higher, coming from plant-bottled beverages. You'll come close with a properly set-up fountain system, but you probably won't ever quite reach the "bite" that you'll get from a very cold can of soda.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-10-2003 05:44 PM                     Jack -- Thanks so much for your detailed response. I will have to check the temperature; I really don't have any data on that at this time. What I was saying is that the refractometer anticipates a sample that is at room temperature which, as you pointed out, is across purposes. So does this mean I need to add a little thermometer to my gadget bag? I had the ops manager phone the contact at Pepsi and someone will be delivering a brix cup to my office today or tomorrow. It may be there now but I wouldn't know. I'll be away until the middle of next week. In all honesty, the bleach idea made me a little nervous, too. I will try the hot water idea and possibly change the lines.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 09-10-2003 06:05 PM                        quote: So does this mean I need to add a little thermometer to my gadget bag? I sure would, Manny. Digital "stick" thermometers are available from most foodservice wholesalers. Analog thermometers have always been available at the county health departments I've dealt with... they may have digitals by now. Most of the stick thermometers you'd use to check your refrigeration equipment & food serving temperatures should be within range to work for your soft drinks.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-10-2003 08:14 PM                     Is there any chance some of the taste issue is corn syrup vs. sugar ? --jhawk  |  IP: Logged

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