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Author Topic: The State Theatre, South Bend: It's for sale! Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 02-23-2006 04:07 AM                     I stumbled upon this today, and I've been estatic ever since. This place was an absolute palace. It reopened in the 90s under a not so great renovation, and eventually became a dance club. I had no idea it was up for sale, but it'd be a great place to show movies again. If only I had a few things, namely the money to invest, I'd grab this up. I need to get some better pictures too because the picture in this link does not do the front of that building justice. Dad said he saw Ben Hur here...wonder if it was in 70mm? Last I heard, it seated close to 2000 folks. Maybe I'm dreaming when I say some of us on here should nab this up and turn it into a movie palace once again. Think of all the fun we could have. UPDATE: Found more pics here. AJG  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 02-23-2006 07:47 AM                     $395,000! A very ordinary house would cost you more than that in London. Does it need a lot of work doing on it, or something? If not, it sounds like a bargain, if you can find a use for it that will make money.  |  IP: Logged Floyd Justin Newton Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 559 From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA Registered: Jun 2002 posted 02-23-2006 07:48 AM                     Arron-- What a line-up of fantastic photos! It appears the theatre building has been kept up pretty well on the exterior, but, what about the interior? It would be a pleasure to go into a theatre where there isn't a lineup of cubes to see a picture. There's gotta be a way you can get it!  |  IP: Logged Mike Spaeth Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1129 From: Marietta, GA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 02-23-2006 08:19 AM                        $395,000 sounds a bit steep ... We bought a 14 for not too much more than that.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-23-2006 09:36 AM                        But does your 14-plex look like the State? I, too, would be curious about the condition of the interior (if it has been a nightclub, the seats have probably been removed and the floor may have been leveled). What is the neighborhood like?  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 02-23-2006 11:34 AM                     The theatre is right in the heart of downtown, which is undergoing a major revitilization. Many restaraunts, clubs, and bars are starting to pop up in the area, as well as the ever popular Morris Performing Arts Center. To me, an investment in changing the state into some sort of venue for film and perhaps other types of entertainment could be a very good prospect. As far as the interior, I'm not really sure. Last I heard, the balcony remained, but the lower level seats were taken out. I emailed the realator about more information, which I'll post once I get it. Truthfully though, I'd hate to see this historical landmark go to waste as just a night club. I'm so glad it is on the historical register, as I believe that means it cannot be destroyed. AJG  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-24-2006 03:17 AM                        quote: Aaron Garman I'm so glad it is on the historical register, as I believe that means it cannot be destroyed. Being on the National Register of Historic Buildings just means that federal money in the form of grants, etc. cannot be used to raze the building or do construction which alters it from its historic appearance. It generally applies to just the facade. Buildings on the NRHB are often razed by private developers, or massively changed on the inside by owners/operators. I rememeber reading of a case where a city wanted to use federal grants to raze a theatre placed on the NRHB, & applied to the federal government to have it removed from the NRHB. Nothing's bulletproof. Typically, more safety is had from having a building landmarked. Again, restrictions apply mostly to the facade, & only theaters that specifically have had the interior landmarked (in cities that protect landmarked buildings) have protected the interior from being gutted & remodeled, etc. Mike Spaeth will be the first to tell you the odds on a workable business model for a 2,000 seat single screen. Typically houses of that size become multi-use, showing films, premieres, concerts, etc. A lot about survivability in cities & neighborhoods where there is already another PAC/historic theatre/etc. is focused on positioning the the theatre either via image by way of what kind of shows it runs or by rental cost: Make it the home base of the local symphony, or if another theatre is already the symphony's home, the theatre where rock concerts go; if another theatre with better stage facilities is already the focus for bus & truck stage shows, the theatre will likely have to look for another niche, etc. Probably that other PAC will be what it would be neccessary to define around. Edit: Damn, that mass of modern pseudo-traditional buildings erected in South Bend creates an oppressive, ugly anonymous mall/prison environment. http://robertpence.com/south_bend/018_main_street.jpg http://robertpence.com/south_bend/020_main_street.jpg http://robertpence.com/south_bend/025_main_street.jpg  |  IP: Logged Matt Fields Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 545 From: Ohio, United States Registered: Jun 2005 posted 02-24-2006 12:01 PM                     Mike- Did you guys buy the real estate (land and building) for the 14 screen or the business and equipment? If you bought the real estate for that little, that would have to be the deal of the century.  |  IP: Logged Mike Spaeth Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1129 From: Marietta, GA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 02-24-2006 02:45 PM                        The odds are probably slim to none. Not in a town with 30 first-run movie screens, that is. It would take a creative soul to make it work. 7.6 acres plus building plus equipment  |  IP: Logged Martin Brooks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 900 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 02-24-2006 11:19 PM                        Seems like a great deal. One of the things I'd check out is how the retail stores in the theater building are doing. If they're surviving even without an open theater, then the theater itself can probably do great. Also, find out how much rent they're paying and whether there's other rentable space in the building. I'd also check to see whether a purchase means you're purchasing any debt or taxes due and what the taxes are. And how much it costs to heat and cool the place. If the place doesn't have working AC, it could probably cost $100K or more to get new units on the roof. I suspect that at minimum, the interior is going to need a technical renovation + seats. New seats at even $100 each can cost $200K if you're going to outfit the entire theater. I agree with those who think it should become a special event venue, whether that's live performances or special film presentations. OR...pay the $400K and just sit on the place. Eventually some developer will come along and want to turn the property into either an office building, retail or condo and will pay a lot for the site. If I had the time, I'd come out and check it out myself.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 02-27-2006 02:00 AM                     Well, I got a message from the realator, and apparently another night club owner with significant financial resources has jumped on the place and is near closing on it. I did, however, learn that the floor has in fact been leveled, but most of the building is still in good repair. He estimated it may cost at least $250,000 to turn it into a theatre again, but it seems as if it's going to be another night club. I was still hoping to get pictures of the interior, but that may have to be on hold for awhile. I wonder why theatre chains don't build places like this anymore. I mean, I understand the multiplex idea, but say design a multiplex in this fashion. Sure, it'd be a fortune, but it's so beautiful looking. I mean I'd love to go to the movies more if I got to walk into a building that looked so darn amazing. As for the way South Bend looks, yeah it is kind of a downer. There are many parts of the city with great old buildings, but so many in disrepair. It pains me to see some of the older homes so run down because it is wild to imagine them looking their finest. Boy could this town use another company like Studebaker or Bendix to fill the void of the past. AJG  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 02-27-2006 06:37 AM                     Being on the register of historic place gives no protection. Some very small tax breaks are available as a result though. When the Byrd received that designation 25 years ago the only requirement for keeping the plaque was that the front wall of the building--the facade had to remain intact, what you did behind it didn't matter, don't know whether that has changed. Landmark status brings protection but it requires something historic, just having stood for a period of time is not a qualifier. Not easy for most theatres but an example would be Ford's Theatre in Washington D.C. The plaque you pay for yourself, the ones on the front of the Byrd came from the Dept. of the Interior suggested supplier are of substandard quality and have not held up well.  |  IP: Logged Scott Jentsch Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1061 From: New Berlin, WI, USA Registered: Apr 2003 posted 02-27-2006 12:56 PM                        quote: Aaron Garman I wonder why theatre chains don't build places like this anymore. I mean, I understand the multiplex idea, but say design a multiplex in this fashion. Sure, it'd be a fortune, but it's so beautiful looking. I mean I'd love to go to the movies more if I got to walk into a building that looked so darn amazing. Would it really cost a fortune to build a facade that was similar in theme to something like this? I know that most companies view concrete block as God's gift, but how much more can it possibly cost to fabricate some columns from concrete and dress up the front with some brickwork? There isn't anything in the photos that looks all that complex to me, but what do I know? I think the bigger issue at hand is the complete lack of fortitude on the part of theaters to create something that looks like it's in the entertainment business. Most new theater buildings (and probably most built in the last 30 years) look like they could be converted into WalMarts or Best Buys with just a sign change out front. It's the lack of architectural desire that makes those photos of downtown South Bend so bland and cold. There's gotta be a way to create something interesting without blowing the budget, but it would appear that nice examples like this are destined to be converted and demolished into oblivion.  |  IP: Logged Mike Spaeth Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1129 From: Marietta, GA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 02-27-2006 01:49 PM                        Muvico does this ... with quite a price-tag.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-02-2006 11:03 AM                        Man, if I only had the money. Thing is, although South Bend has, for the last decade been trying to revitalize the downtown area, it still is has a hard time attracting people to the downtown area in the evenings. I was there just in 2003 and past 8pm it was like a ghost town. The group that opened it in the late 90s and tried to make it work as a single screen never tapped the university crowd. I talked to the manager at the time and he said they thought it would work running first run. Wrong. Single screens simply can't compete with multiplexes with first run fare. Single screens have to find a niche demographic and cater to it. With a university at its door-step, independent, art, foreign and selected first run menu would have worked very well. Thing is, with Notre Dame in such close proximity, some cooperation with the university could have been put into place where the theatre could coordinate with the film department and run films that were part of the circulicum, affording students as well as faculty to be able to see classic films the way they were intended. The operators never looked to the university for that kind of interplay, a resource that might have actually made it viable. Without wooing the college crowd -- which would open up a population bigger than most small towns -- it was doomed. Hence the dance club. The fact that the dance club couldn't make it either, bespeaks of the problems downtown South Bend has. And dance clubs don't have nearly the same issues as do theatres in terms of making a go of it; they don't have to compete with "home dance clubs" like theatres have to do with home theatres. Unfortunately now that ND has built a beautiful, huge performing arts center replete with a theatre designated specifically for film exhibition, not only wouldn't anyone running the State get much cooperation from ND, but they would probably be seen as competition. ND has the power to crush competition like a bug. I could even see the university buying the property just so they could sell it to make sure that the buyer would NOT put in a theatre or any other business that they would consider competitive with any of their activities. The university tends to be very isolationist with regard to South Bend. It has always been happy to use the city for the cheap labor it can supply, but other than that, the university didn't have much interaction with the town. My observation was that although they had a symbiotic relationship with each other of necessity -- employer and employee -- they didn't much like each other. Naw, as cheap as that price is, and even if one had the resources to refurbish it back to it's glory -- and it was a beauty....when I was a student, I saw lots of films in the State, and yes, it was a beautiful house as was the case with even the modest neighborhood theatres during the "golden age" of the single screen movie palace -- I don't think one could make it work in South Bend. I plan on visiting a professor friend of mine some time in April. I will check out what Main Street looks like at 8pm at night on a weekday. If it is as desolated as it was the last time I was in town, then running the State successfully as single screen will take a lot more than the price of the building and the restoration.  |  IP: Logged

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