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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Ground Level   » RANT! Why not E-Cinema? Makes so much sense to me! (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: RANT! Why not E-Cinema? Makes so much sense to me!
Ronda Fitzsimmons
Film Handler

Posts: 75
From: Pottstown, PA, USA
Registered: Sep 2002

- posted 03-29-2010 01:31 PM      Profile for Ronda Fitzsimmons   Author's Homepage   Email Ronda Fitzsimmons   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, so this has been bugging me since the beginnings of the D-Cinema rage - but now it's even more true than before.

Why are the film companies so adament about ignoring the economies of E-Cinema releasing in the US? I can EASILY equip my discount theatres with professional grade digital projectors and business class servers, with NO financial help from the film companies. I can even afford to have a spare or two on hand for those times something needs service.

My theatres are all pretty small screen move-over, so I'm not going to be competing with the first run over the top presentations, and I'll still be improving my presentations because of scratched prints, old beat up equipment, and better sound from a clean digital source. I'll be able to upgrade as new tech comes out, and if need be I'll enclose the whole setup in a cage to keep the thieves away... Although how that's going to stop them from recording in the theatre is beyond me... The customer wins, the film company wins, and the theatre owner wins. Besides, nothing in the commercial market would stop them from marking prints, just like they do now. It's not like if they told me to stop playing a 35mm print, I'd ignore them - which is one really crazy argument I heard from someone...

It really just seems that there are some bigwigs somewhere who must be getting their palms greased to completely refuse to use the available technology to economically bring digital to the theatres.

I'm almost at the point of buying a telecine to digital so I can prove it them myself!

Can anyone help me understand this whole thing differently?

Thanks for listening to my rant...

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Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 03-29-2010 01:36 PM      Profile for Martin McCaffery   Author's Homepage   Email Martin McCaffery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You're dealing with idiots from Hollywood, what more is there to understand? [evil]

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

- posted 03-29-2010 01:58 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My guess is that it boils down to security.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

- posted 03-29-2010 06:37 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The whole deal is about POWER and CONTROL! Louis

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Todd McCracken
Master Film Handler

Posts: 263
From: Northridge, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2008

- posted 03-30-2010 11:03 AM      Profile for Todd McCracken     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Darryl Spicer
My guess is that it boils down to security.
Yup, that would be it.

Nothing is stopping anyone from going e-cinema and showing blu-ray disks but your not going to see first run content like that.

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Cameron Glendinning
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 845
From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia
Registered: Dec 2005

- posted 03-30-2010 04:22 PM      Profile for Cameron Glendinning   Email Cameron Glendinning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From someone who uses ecinema equipment in a country that suports it. The quality simply does not compare to 35mm nor Dcinema. The only major cost saver is the single chip technology, complete with its rainbow effect.
Spend a fraction of the money on maintaining your 35mm gear and installing filmguard will produce vastly better results.
There is NO security with e cinema nor a proper scope!

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

- posted 03-30-2010 05:39 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Why not E-Cinema? Simple: Would you be willing to drive to a location, pay for parking, pay for an admission ticket, pay for concessions, put up with a room full or rude assholes either talking on their phones (or each other) and eating loudly, only to watch a giant screen T.V.?

I think not.

And D-Crapema is no better in that regard.

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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000

- posted 03-30-2010 06:21 PM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Ronda Fitzsimmons
and I'll still be improving my presentations because of scratched prints, old beat up equipment, and better sound from a clean digital source.
Not too jump on you here but I started in this business at a second run "dollar" theatre. In my opinion if you can afford to equip all your screens with video you can upgrade your old and beat up 35mm equipment and hire professionals to run and maintain it. As far as digital if you have (or install) a film based system like Dolby Digital you will have "clean" digital quality sound. A digital track does not degrade the same way as an analog track. It either works or it doesn't so even with a used print you will still have a perfect sounding digital track. as far as scratched and dirty prints the only thing you can do is train your employees to refuse them and ask for new prints even if your sub run the studio does not want you making them look bad by showing dirty and scratched prints.

Again, I am not trying to to berate you I am just saying that you can put on a perfect presentation with film if you invest in it. A substandard video projector is not going to have anywhere near the quality of a good 35mm presentation.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted 03-30-2010 09:35 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Sean McKinnon
A digital track does not degrade the same way as an analog track.
But, not to throw a wingnut in the gearwork here, but if that SRD track gets scratched, or even worn due to the many miles it travels through the gate and trap assembly, it's definitely an analog playback print only.

Actually, DTS is the way to go on digital sound since this area nevers wear down-if you can find used players and readers to be found.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

- posted 03-30-2010 09:43 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frankly, in a normally maintained projector, I have never seen a dolby print deformed. I have personally run a long loop over 17,000 times (dragged on the floor, in oil), cleaned it (with a rag) and it still performed perfectly.

Sprocket run, maybe. But then again that is a PEOPLE problem, not a film or machine problem. Louis

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 03-31-2010 11:26 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
Would you be willing to drive to a location, pay for parking, pay for an admission ticket, pay for concessions, put up with a room full or rude assholes either talking on their phones (or each other) and eating loudly, only to watch a giant screen T.V.?
Not to mention, to watch a movie that is already out on BluRay, and cable and which they all can get for a buck at RedBox, or NetFlex. So what are you offering them? Will they come to your theatre to pay you 10 times what they can pay to see it in the comfort of their livingroom with their friends? Like Tony, I think not.

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Mark Hajducki
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 500
From: Edinburgh, UK
Registered: May 2003

- posted 03-31-2010 11:39 AM      Profile for Mark Hajducki   Email Mark Hajducki   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
With film there is quality differences between cinemas 70mm vs 35mm, digital vs analogue sound, screen size, projector/lamphouse quality. Rarely have the studios insisted on a minimum standard.

Many times it has been seen that the studios are not really that bothered about quality.

I could see there being some requirement for a dcinema-lite to finally convert every cinema to digital. The main problems would be setting on a standard that offers (some) security and extra work for the distributors.

Customers will vote with their feet, just as they do at the moment (even if they do not know exactly why they know that somewhere is better). In rural environments, without competition then reduced dcinema may prevent the closure of a cinema.

quote:
The only major cost saver is the single chip technology,
Single chip DLP projectors should not be used, however it should now be possible to get three chip projectors for not that much.

I would suspect that the main cost saving is the wider choice of supplier (as opposed to those who have gone through the DCI compliance process, and only certify their larger products).

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Jonathan Smith
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 201
From: Youngstown, OH
Registered: Jan 2010

- posted 03-31-2010 12:14 PM      Profile for Jonathan Smith   Email Jonathan Smith   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey, it all boils down to money of course, there is no reason to care about quality, right?

I don't care if 35mm cost $100,000 a print. If it can look better than 4K, and SHOULD look better than 2K (if it weren't for shit DI jobs) I am going to keep using it.

Simple as that.

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

- posted 03-31-2010 12:17 PM      Profile for Lyle Romer   Email Lyle Romer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
only to watch a giant screen T.V.?

I think not.

And D-Crapema is no better in that regard.
I disagree. Although D-Cinema doesn't look as good as a no DI, shot and printed in scope and projected properly by qualified people 35mm print, D-Cinema definitely looks better than a giant TV. Blu-ray on a good 1080P set looks very good but for whatever reason (probably having a lot to do with calibration as well as the 4:4:4 color) D-Cinema in 2k still looks better. I can only assume that based on 2k, 4k DLP presentation of something shot in scope and scanned at 4k will look as good as or better than 35mm. It may have slightly lower resolution but that is made up for by no generational loss and jump and weave.

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006

- posted 03-31-2010 01:17 PM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Monte L Fullmer
Actually, DTS is the way to go on digital sound since this area nevers wear down-if you can find used players and readers to be found.
A couple of years ago, we had a small auditorium we wanted
to upgrade to digital sound after we'd done major upgrades
in all the others. I got a re-furbished DTS-6D complete with
reader, projector bracket and all cables for about $1500 from
International Cinema Equipemnt Company in Miami, Fla. It also
came with a full waranty, since ICECO is a licensed DTS dealer.

The only other expense was about $60 for a little break-
out board to interface the DTS decks with the UltraStereo
processor. (Yes, I could have made my own cables but when
you factor in the cost of my labor and of having to go out
& buy a couple of connectors, the price was about the same.)
I already had an RTA and experience in setting these things
up so there were no additonal expenses in getting an outside
tech in to do the final alignment.

Interational Cinema almost always has used/refurbrished
units on hand and often lists them on e-bay. I've never
had any problems with their device. In fact, I've had far
more trouble with another 6-D that was bought new from
a different dealer dealer.

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