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Topic: Disney booking conditions changed?

Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 04-12-2015 01:39 PM

There is quite a bit of buzz currently about new WDS booking conditions that have come on german cinema operators. Disney sent out the new conditions last week in the form of registered mail to all cinema operators. I won't go into the details yet, but it has been said that WDS germany followed new guidelines of their US parent company. Now I'm wondering wether new condition changes have been put into operation in the US or elsewhere as well?

Quite a few cinemas have already booked 'Avengers - Age Of Ultron' earlier this year, and are now faced with changed conditions. Quite a few actually cancelled their bookings.

- Carsten

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-12-2015 02:42 PM

There was a letter written to Disney by NATO decrying some of their new policies. I doubt it will make Disney bend though, since they never seem to bend much.

I don't remember much of what the letter was about since almost none of it applies to small towns. Example -- one of the new rules was, payment of film rent required within 7 days (previously it was 14). I guess that's a hardship for big companies but I always write my film rent check on the last day of the week so no problem here.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 04-12-2015 05:28 PM

About a year or 5 ago, Disney backpedaled on a "condition change" after many big chains in Europe threatened to boycott the release of Alice in Wonderland. Sometimes, but really just sometimes those boycott tactics actually do work. [Wink]

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Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011

posted 04-12-2015 05:38 PM

I pay all of the film companies by Electronic Funds Transfer instead of by cheque. It's actually cheaper than writing cheques and purchasing a stamp.

The service that I use takes two to three days to transfer funds from my online account to the recipient, and it costs 75 cents per transaction. I've never really understood why the transaction isn't instantaneous since it's all electronic, though.

Most of the film companies understand what this is if you call it a "wire transfer".

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 04-12-2015 06:30 PM

quote: Frank Cox
I've never really understood why the transaction isn't instantaneous since it's all electronic, though.

That's simple: Every minute those funds are "in transfer", they can essentially do whatever they want with it, because neither end of the transaction can withdraw or transfer the money to somewhere else.

Financial institution's primary business model isn't to facilitate easy access to the funds entrusted to them, quite the opposite actually.

After years and years of deliberating it's finally possible to transfer funds between bank accounts from one Euro country to another within a working day. If you ask me, the technical infrastructure to do just this already existed back in the 70s, years before the European Monetary Union was conceived...

Transferring funds around the world in 2015 is still an adventure...

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-13-2015 01:04 PM

My understanding is that wire transfers (at least in the US) cost upwards of $25. Frank--is it that much cheaper in Canada, or are you doing something different?

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Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011

posted 04-13-2015 01:58 PM

I use Hyperwallet for this purpose.

I do most of my banking with the local credit union, and a few years back I asked what it would take to start making electronic payments instead of mailing cheques. They signed me up with Hyperwallet and now I write maybe one or two cheques per month -- I pay everything else through Hyperwallet.

It's a separate thing from my actual bank account, so I transfer money directly from my credit union account into Hyperwallet, then spend that money until it's gone and transfer more as needed. I gather that they have some sort of a contract or agreement with the credit unions to provide this sort of electronic payment system for them, since I got signed up for it through the credit union here and transferring money from the credit union into Hyperwallet is a painless procedure.

I did have to get them to give me a higher limit for payments since their default value is something like $1000 per transaction. That took a day or so for them to have my identity verified or something.

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Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2253
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 04-13-2015 03:39 PM

I wasn't privy to the terms of the new Disney policies. But one of the bones of contention in the NATO letter had to do with Disney using NATO's published average ticket price as a benchmark for setting the per capita.

As the NATO letter points out, the average ticket price includes prices from large format and premium cinemas. This causes the price to be inflated compared to standard theatres. Furthermore, the national average price doesn't account for theatres in markets where the local/regional average falls below the national average, often based on local economics.

Another issue was Disney wanted theatres to stop matinees at 5:00pm, rather than 6:00pm which is generally the industry standard.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 04-13-2015 04:54 PM

quote: Scott Norwood
My understanding is that wire transfers (at least in the US) cost upwards of $25. Frank--is it that much cheaper in Canada, or are you doing something different?

Here on the dark side, we pay zero to a few cents for a "wire transfer" and anything upwards of $25 for a check. It's sometimes hard to convince people in the U.S. or Canada you won't make anybody happy by issuing a payment using a check around here. Then again, that's where folks like PayPal make a lot of money.

quote: Frank Cox
It's a separate thing from my actual bank account, so I transfer money directly from my credit union account into Hyperwallet, then spend that money until it's gone and transfer more as needed. I gather that they have some sort of a contract or agreement with the credit unions to provide this sort of electronic payment system for them, since I got signed up for it through the credit union here and transferring money from the credit union into Hyperwallet is a painless procedure.

That sounds an awful lot like PayPal, doesn't it? [Smile]

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Michael Putlack
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 187
From: Fort Collins, Colorado
Registered: Sep 2011

posted 04-13-2015 05:04 PM

When I moved to New Zealand, I was surprised to find that checks don't really exist here. Everything is done by bank transfer and none of it costs extra. Film payments, payroll, purchasing concessions stock, everything.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 4340
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009

posted 04-13-2015 05:30 PM

quote: Justin Hamaker
But one of the bones of contention in the NATO letter had to do with Disney using NATO's published average ticket price as a benchmark for setting the per capita.

As the NATO letter points out, the average ticket price includes prices from large format and premium cinemas. This causes the price to be inflated compared to standard theatres. Furthermore, the national average price doesn't account for theatres in markets where the local/regional average falls below the national average, often based on local economics.

That's the major issue here in my opinion as well. They are effectively forcing all cinemas to raise their admission prices, based on their own made up 'nation-wide average'.

The problem is, if Disneys sets these rules, other studios/distributors will follow.

Some operators over here actually consider showing disney movies with a special 'Disney upcharge' to make patrons aware of the issue. Their minimum per-capita is a problem especially for our low children-admission prices.

Is there a place to look up these changed conditions for the US or this NATO letter?

- Carsten

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-13-2015 07:08 PM

The NATO letter isn't (legally) online since it's confidential, but the main point in it is the average ticket price data.

The only other major point raised is the 5:00 matinee cutoff time. The letter alludes to other complaints about Disney's new terms being received but since they don't (and can't) get into specific negotiations about contract terms, the letter doesn't get into those issues.

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Timothy Eiler
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 126
From: Litchfield , Minnesota, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 04-13-2015 09:16 PM

quote: Carsten Kurz
Some operators over here actually consider showing disney movies with a special 'Disney upcharge' to make patrons aware of the issue. Their minimum per-capita is a problem especially for our low children-admission prices.

One of the now closed drive-in around had a 12 & under free policy since it opened in the 50's. But due to per caps they would Charge $3 for 12& under only when playing Disney movies.
The Patrons Always blamed the Drive-In for being greedy

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-14-2015 01:59 AM

The Drive-In needed to do a better job of educating it's patrons. I think the idea of calling it a "Disney Surcharge" is a great idea.

Years ago when we were teetering on the edges of establising our operation as being "theatrical" as opposed to "non-theatrical" in the eyes of the studios, we had a very hard time with....you guest it, The Rodent. All the studios but Disney where happy to treate us as a commercial art house even though our magnificent art deco 2500 seat, fully equipped theatre happened to be on a college campus. Disney wouldn't and refused to give up product even though they were playing titles in little rat holes around town...the worst dives in our area that you wouldn't send a dog into. Sent a couple of frames to the Cali office.

The NY Buena Vista office finally said we could play FANTASIA in its '70 rerelease and in 4 track mag, but then Burbank rescinded and pulled it, even though we had posters up and were playing a trailer for two weeks. I was sooo pissed that I got Filmack to make us a credit crawl which explained how sorry we were, but the Disney corporation was the one that didn't want our patrons to see FANTASIA in our beautiful theatre, but thought you should see it in mono sound and with the image badly cropped at other theatres in town.

We finally did play it, but they only sent a mono print. They claimed they "never made 4 trk prints." Gee, then I guess the collector that I borrowed the 4trk mag print we played from must have struck it himself, eh?

That was a long time ago. They's since become friends...well, quasi-friends, once they discovered how much overage a 2500 seat can return. We've run FANTASIA quite often over the years as a classic staple here.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 04-14-2015 03:00 AM

I'm telling you, a little boycottish behavior will certainly open eyes and EARS back in Burbank. It's all about the upcoming Avengers movie. They spent $250M making the movie, they will need to spend a whole lot more $M to market it. They can't afford a screw up, because their shareholders will demand blood if they do so.

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