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Author Topic: Late show being adult movie Karl Belter Film Handler Posts: 21 From: Chillicothe, IL, USA Registered: Mar 2019 posted 04-01-2019 01:52 PM                     My wife is the new manager of a small town theater. Our Optimist Club bought it before the digital conversion. The theater is an old grand 1 screen that was split into two shorter rooms. We try to show first run movies. Our ticket and concessions are priced far below the bigger city "plexes" which are a minimum 20 minute drive away. Except for the rare rated R movie like "IT", we really do best on kids movies. I have been searching the forums, and mostly find that the following suggestion is probably a tough sell to the distro/studio system. But wanted to ask if anyone found a way to do this. What we would like to do is get a 3rd movie sometimes and show it at a later slot. This is mostly due to the "must run it for 2 or 3 weeks" requirements. Since we target kids movies, our movie schedules are 6PM only on weekdays. Winter 2PM+6PM Sat/Sun. School breaks we will add a 2PM to some days. Summer months we might go to a 2PM+6PM+9PM. What we would like to do is get a 3rd movie, and show it at 8 or 9 PM since little kids don't normally show up at that time. We currently work through a buyer and my wife has been telling me the stories about how he has tried to get us to take a movie that will no way work in our theater. But if we could get it for only a late showing, it might. Pointless to even ask?  |  IP: Logged Brent Barnhart Film Handler Posts: 12 From: Terre Haute, IN USA Registered: Jan 2018 posted 04-01-2019 05:38 PM                        Never hurts to ask. Your booker will know the correct answer. If the third movie is first run, or even a few weeks off the break, that studio will want a clean screen. If you’re bringing in an older title then that’s a whole other thing. Just beware of minimums if your state allows them. If you only plan to show a movie (especially an older title) only once or twice, those minimums will get you and you will find that it’s most likely not even worth it.  |  IP: Logged Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 04-01-2019 06:16 PM                        When you say "small town", I'm curious to know how small you mean? I agree with Brent's point. If you are showing first run, and add a third set of show times, the studios are going to expect their title to also get that third time slot. It's unlikely you will get studios to agree to just a 9:00 show time for a new movie. The reason I ask about the size of the town is because the theatre may be missing out on an opportunity to develop the senior citizen market by focusing so exclusively on kids movies. The majority of my theatre's most reliable customers are seniors - or at least older adults. We have a number of these people who are here at least once a week, and often they come to see every movie we play. I generally agree with taking Disney family movies, and some of the other high profile movies like How to Train Your Dragon. However, I think it would be a mistake to take something like Ugly Dolls over The Front Runner. For what it's worth, I run a 5 screen theatre in a smallish community. The town is only 5,000, and the county is only 60,000. There is a discount twin about 30 minutes away from us, but we frequently put up very strong grosses in comparison to theatres in comparable markets. Our typical schedule is 4 sets Friday and Saturday, 3 sets Sunday and Monday (no 9:00 shows), and 2 sets Tuesday - Thursday (no 1:00 matinees, no 9:00 shows).  |  IP: Logged Karl Belter Film Handler Posts: 21 From: Chillicothe, IL, USA Registered: Mar 2019 posted 04-01-2019 10:33 PM                     We are a town of 6,000. But right next to us is Peoria at 112,000 in our county alone. That is 20 min on near and 30 min on far side away from us. There are several large plexes with over 12 screens each. As to the seniors, we do get some regulars. Our Veezi data clearly shows though that the PG to G movies have higher sales. So given a choice each week, we would take a new movie that at least kids can go to. The points made on distro/studio demands to get the extra time and also not letting us have a newer late show are what I expected. I found posts here from years ago pointing out the how the current state is the opposite of what the studios said when trying to get theaters to go digital. With online slated to surpass theater money this year (just passed cable TV), the more I dig into how things run, the more I am worried our theater won't survive.  |  IP: Logged Frank Cox Film God Posts: 2234 From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada Registered: Apr 2011 posted 04-01-2019 11:27 PM                        Twenty years ago and more, on most weeks I would play two movies - a kids show at 7pm and a shoot-em-up or whatever at 9pm. And I would even play a midnight special on Friday and Saturday a couple of times over the summer with a horror movie at midnight for two nights only. (The biggest midnight movie was The Craft which I played for two midnight shows and packed 'em in for both of them. The Island of Dr. Moreau 1996 remake did quite well for midnight shows too, and Carrie II.) But I haven't been able to do anything like that in years. Which is too bad because I found that in a lot of weeks if I had two movies with a reasonable attendance for each I would ultimately end up with more money in pocket than if I had one blockbuster for that week. And people had more of a choice of what to watch on a night out, too. Now I just play one show per night and weekend matinees when I have a kids show. It's usually pointless to play more than one show per night because it just splits the crowd and instead of having 40 people at the show I end up with 20 people here for the first showing and 20 more for the second.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-01-2019 11:48 PM                        Comments above are correct that you'll never get a new movie for "late shows only." And some studios (coughDisneycough) are tougher than others when it comes to giving permission to split the screen. Some studios will never allow splits on their "A" titles. (cough cough) In general, if either movie is a huge hit, you may never get permission for a split; but if both movies you want to play are not a blockbusters, AND if the two movies appeal to completely different audiences, then you're likely to get permission if both movies are a over 3 or 4 weeks old. But the first couple weeks at least, unless a movie is a total flop, every studio will want a clean screen for their movie. I think it's a matter of pride for them, partly. They don't care if you nave no patrons at a late show, as long as their movie owns that screen. Rule of thumb: If either of your intended movies is on top of the national gross charts, you probably can't split it yet. Wait till it drops a few notches.  |  IP: Logged Dave Bird Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 777 From: Perth, Ontario, Canada Registered: Jun 2000 posted 04-02-2019 08:31 AM                        I suppose dropping a "3rd screen" from the ceiling and draping off part of one of the rooms doesn't qualify? Don't know how we'd do that at the drive-in, though I've often had the thought if there was ever a much smaller, cheaper projector available, a person could try some sort of "outdoor seated movie garden" as a move-over screen. Same thing could be done indoors with a small "screening room". Of course the logic falls apart when you realize if the CoughStudiosCough don't like the scenario, they still just won't book you.  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 04-02-2019 12:48 PM                     I guess that asking will never hurt. Heck, it should be more than just asking, but more a bit like nagging. I mean, those movie studios and distributors finally need to start to respect the many single and twins out there. They're still a sizable chunk of their operating income and still add several feet to the size of the yacht their executives can buy each year. To stay with the maritime theme: Both exhibitors and studios are in the same boat, but it's the exhibitor who usually knows best what flies... sorry... floats and what sinks in his/her particular market. If they (the studios) let them (the exhibitors) maximize the exhibitors profit by offering them the flexibility to run what draws a crowd, they'll make more money in the end... More money for the studio equals more bonus, which equals a bigger yacht... So, every body wins, the studios, the exhibitors, the movie-going public and even the yacht builders...  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-02-2019 03:36 PM                        quote: Marcel Birgelen I mean, those movie studios and distributors finally need to start to respect the many single and twins out there. They're still a sizable chunk of their operating income and still add several feet to the size of the yacht their executives can buy each year. Everything you have said is true, but unfortunately the studios are operating in their own (underwater) world, especially when it comes to single screens. I'm sure we could probably almost double our grosses if I could book this place the way we really need to....running most movies on the break for one (sometimes two) weeks, and being able to stack movies that appeal to narrow audiences (such as a kid movie stacked with a horror movie). Telling the studios that doubling our grosses would also double the film rent they would get from us has zero effect, unfortunately. Actually it would MORE than double it because we'd play more movies in general, and more on the break. I've always wished for a threshold based on average gross where studios would lessen their restrictions. I think $2000 would be a good threshold. If a single screen grosses less than $2000 a week, they should be able to play new releases for one week, and stack them in week 2 if they want. Maybe a program like this could be in exchange for a percentage point higher film rent, or something like that. Hey, I'm flexible. I just want the damn movies that my audience wants before home video is looming. Hell, Amazon already advertises "on demand" movies the same day they hit theaters, as "coming soon to Amazon Prime!" If they fall into the Netflix gambit of releasing movies to streaming after 3 or 4 weeks (which is probably coming fairly soon), a procedure like this will become even more imperative or else all us small guys can kiss our own ass goodbye. There must be SOMEBODY at each studio that we could write to, to explain this idea to them, but nobody seems to know who makes those decisions or sets those policies. And we never get told a good reason WHY they won't do it, outside of the unspoken implication that we really don't matter enough to change a policy for.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-02-2019 06:44 PM                     It's because the studios are most concerned about their marketing campaigns and movie theaters are irrelevant to them. I wouldn't doubt that studios see movie theaters as more of a necessary annoyance than a profit making endeavor. They want to position their product to gain the best share in the home video and/or streaming markets. Packaging content for exhibition in theaters is just an expense to them but people think that a movie isn't "legitimate" unless it plays in theaters. It's weird how, on one hand they use theater exhibition to gain attention and legitimacy but, on the other, they just plain don't give a flying frog leap about theaters. Consider the retail supermarket... Many people know that products are positioned at different places on the aisle, shelf or refrigerator case based on how store management wants to sell product. They might put children's breakfast cereals on a shelf below waist level in order to attract the attention of kids who would want their parents to buy them. They might put products with higher markups on end caps because people will see them first and will be more likely to make an impulse buy. All of those things are pretty well known. But... Did you know that many large retail grocery chains charge manufacturers big bucks to get placement in prime shelf space? Yes! They call them "slotting fees!" A company like Ben & Jerry's might have to pay $10,000 or more in order to get their ice cream placed, front and center, in a freezer case. The company that doesn't pay the slotting fee will probably end up with their product placed in the bottom corner of the case where nobody will find it unless they are looking. The bottom line is that the products you buy in the grocery store are sold more along the lines of some company's marketing strategy than they are sold on the price and quality of the product. The products that are offered for sale are all placed based on marketing. If the manufacturer and the grocery store can't come to terms on their respective marketing strategies and who pays what money for which privileges, you won't even see that product on the shelf. What I am saying is that you, the movie theater owner, are little more than a flyspeck in some studio executive's marketing plan.  |  IP: Logged Martin Brooks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 900 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 04-02-2019 10:09 PM                        quote: Randy Stankey But... Did you know that many large retail grocery chains charge manufacturers big bucks to get placement in prime shelf space? That's true, but that's the reverse of the situation that theatre owners, especially independent theater owners find themselves in. The studios are dictating terms when it should be the theaters. The theaters should be able to charge the studios to get their product on the best screen or the largest theater or even possibly to display stand ups and other marketing materials. Back in the day, the studios used to guarantee the nut for theaters in big cities, especially New York City and Los Angeles. And the studios (or distributors) used to pay for the big display ads in newspapers. If one thinks about it, the studios shouldn't be able to dictate certain terms at all. Obviously, they should be able to dictate their percentage, but where and when it plays? Sounds like restraint of trade to me, but I'm not a lawyer.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-02-2019 11:52 PM                     You're right. If the concept of slotting fees translated to the theater business, studios would pay money or give concessions in order to get prime placement. (Theater size, showtimes, etc.) They have successfully turned the tables on exhibitors where we essentially pay THEM. Hollywood is no longer in the business of making movies. They are now in the business of MARKETING movies. Rhetorically speaking, they couldn't give a rat's patootie about the actual movies, compared to how much they care about the way movies are marketed. It was my girlfriend's father, the producer, who told me how Hollywood isn't Hollywood anymore. He wouldn't have retired if things hadn't gone so far off the rails. There was a period of time when I wished I could get back into the movie theater business. Maybe, some day, I will but, today, I have no real desire. A lot of this feeling comes from talking with her dad...not so much specific things he said but the way he talked about the way attitudes and culture has changed in recent years. I have my doubts about how Hollywood will survive into the future. I'm not saying that Hollywood will go bankrupt and disappear or something like that. I mean that the culture of Hollywood that we know is going to fade away and morph into something completely different. I am doubtful about whether exhibition in theaters is going to be a meaningful part of that new paradigm in the future.  |  IP: Logged Karl Belter Film Handler Posts: 21 From: Chillicothe, IL, USA Registered: Mar 2019 posted 04-03-2019 09:05 AM                     Thanks to everyone with the replies. I feel even more annoyed and a little helpless now. At least I am in good company in my situation. I am still going to work with my wife (the manager) to try to help our Optimist Club owned theater so we still raise money for kids groups. So if I can't probably get a 3rd show (still going to keep asking), we have been looking at alternative uses. Some ideas have been e-sports league late nights where we splice 2/4/6 video feeds together with a unit and send that to projector. We could do this in the winter when there are fewer movie choices and kids need something to do. Not showing a movie so they can't lock my screen down I assume.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-03-2019 08:43 PM                        quote: Karl Belter Some ideas have been e-sports league late nights where we splice 2/4/6 video feeds together with a unit and send that to projector. I'm not sure how that works, but you do need to be careful if you're using your screen for ANYTHING besides a movie you're booked for. If you were to use a late slot on a Saturday night for one of these game nights .... if the studio found out they were giving up a potentially lucrative showtime slot, they might take you off service, especially if you advertise the alternative thing on social media. They have people who check these things out, look at your website, call your phone recording etc. It doesn't matter if you are positive that nobody would buy a ticket to a 9:15 showing of some PG kids show. What you know about your own market doesn't make any difference. The bottom line is, if you're booked for a movie, if you want to do anything else with your screen during those days, get permission from the studio.  |  IP: Logged Mike Croaro Master Film Handler Posts: 394 From: Millbrae, CA Registered: Apr 2005 posted 04-03-2019 09:18 PM                     Hello Karl, Maybe you should only play 1 kids movie a week. Two kids movies might just compete with one another. You could play a kids movie on one screen, and perhaps a different type of film on the other screen. Maybe something for older adults. Mike  |  IP: Logged

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