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Topic: Things in Movies that PISS OFF projectionists!!!

Rachel Carter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 248
From: Gloucester, Massachusetts, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 02-01-2001 03:10 AM

Just remembering a day that me and my finace were pre-screening the movie "Emperor's New Groove" in his theater. There is a scene where it appears that the picture slows down and you hear the sound of film stopping (at that point you are already out of your chair running to the booth)....Then the damn Lama jumps out on the screen and starts talking....GRRRRR

Anyone have any other movies like this?

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"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!

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Dwayne Caldwell
Master Film Handler

Posts: 323
From: Rockwall, TX, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 02-01-2001 03:52 AM

Gremlins 2 - The New Batch. I was still just an usher then (probably a little more than a month after I turned sixteen and therefore a little more than a month after I started the job) and was doing a theatre check of the auditorium. I was almost out the door after finishing up when I saw the film melt. It was my first time to see celluloid dissolve off the screen like that at a real theatre (and it wasn't even real!), so I just stood there like a dumbass for a minute when this customer gets up to leave and inform someone. She sees yours truly and approaches me to find out what's going on, and I'm finally getting the hint to take off and tell someone (Like I said, I was a dumb sixteen year old). Not more than a few words of exchange between the two of us and we both started to hear sound and looked at the screen to see the Gremlin hands making shadow puppets. We both just stood there for a minute and watched as the scene played out, then just looked at each other and rolled our eyes in annoyance. I'm sure we weren't the only ones in the auditorium who were pissed off at that stupid little gag. But it's funny in retrospect now. Of all the moments I chose to walk in on that show...

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The man with the magic hands.

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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-01-2001 07:56 AM

I know that we have mentioned this before but no too long ago with Fight Club, during a changeover or something you suddenly see the sprocket holes, analog sound line and I think the DTS timecode line too. Then it cleared up. When I screened it, it sent me upstairs instantly.

Paul.

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 02-01-2001 08:05 AM

If I ever made a movie, I think it would be funny to include nearly every "projection mistake" in the actual movie.

1. Have a shot of a view of a room from the viewpoint of someone hanging upside down, and have the beginning of this shot be right after a reel change.

2. Right after another reel change, have a random warbling sound, and have the image reversed with a fake soundtrack showing on the side of the image.

3. Have a meltdown, Gremlins style, in the middle of the reel.

4. Have the sound of the film slowing to a stop and the screen going black, Monty Python and the Holy Grail style.

5. Have some intentional frame drift, with the frame line showing at times.

6. Print a short segment of the movie in the wrong format (like in a flat film, have everything vertically enlongated for a short bit.

7. Have some abrupt changes in motion to make it look like frames are missing.

8. Have intentional fake scratches in the image.

9. Make it look like dust or hair is caught in the gate. (A gag used in cartoons of long ago).

10. Have the intentional defects be an obvious part of the "joke" of the movie, which would be a comedy.

Remember in the movie "Man on the Moon" where in a TV show that Andy Kaufman was making, the vertical synchonization was purposely put in wrong for a short bit to make people think their TV's vertical hold was misadjusted for a few seconds?

I'll bet if such a movie were made, some projectionists would probably refuse to run it. Two of the defects would probably cause some to build the thing incorrectly.

Evans (Just too cruel)

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02-01-2001 09:11 AM

What might be even more fun would be to take a print like this to some of the more poorly run theatres, and see if the yokels there would make errors that would correct some of the problems. Examples: set it up with scope previews and flat feature to let them get the lens turret change right; set the first frames out of frame by a sprocket or two, so the misframed film quickly goes _into_ frame.

How about getting a roll of chromed bumper tape, and using that to make all your splices at reel ends? Automations would be cycling every 20 minutes in some theatres.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 02-01-2001 10:04 AM

How about the Spike Lee film "Crooklyn" at the start of reel 5 he decided to use an anamorphic lens to set a mood of the film. At first I thought it was a bad reel or something then I found out it was supposed to be that way. Try telling that to the pissed off customers who think you have made a mistake. What was up with the useless 1.85 reel 1 of The Horse Whisperer. The rest of the movie was 2.35 I hate it when they do stupid crap like that. I remember the gremlins II trailer. I told an assistant manager to go in and watch the trailers for me. As I stood in the lobby I watched him run out and head for the booth. Curious question. When you played either of the gremlins films did you notice any extra problems in the booth.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 02-01-2001 01:02 PM

'Singin' in the Rain' - the disasterous preview screening in which the picture goes out of rack, out of synch and then the needle sticks in the Vitaphone disc.

More recently, 'State and Main' has sections of Academy leader in between each screen of the opening titles - I'm sure someone, somewhere will end up cutting them out in an attempt to 'repair' the print.

But what pisses me off most of all are representations of leaders in TV programmes, publicity materials &c., in which the numbers flash all the way down to 1. Whenever I am training new projectionists, they are always very surprised when I tell them that the last printed number is 3 followed by 48 opaque frames...

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 02-01-2001 02:18 PM

Leo said: "But what pisses me off most of all are representations of leaders in TV programmes, publicity materials &c., in which the numbers flash all the way down to 1. Whenever I am training new projectionists, they are always very surprised when I tell them that the last printed number is 3 followed by 48 opaque frames..."

Standard SMPTE 301 is for "Theater Projection Leader, Trailer and Cue Marks". This is the new leader that has the countdown numbers every 16 frames, from "11" to "3" with black in-between, WITHOUT the moving "clock". A similar previous leader was sometimes known as the "Academy" leader. Jeffrey Johnson (IATSE Cleveland) and Jess Daily (UCLA Film Archive) led the SMPTE working group that developed this standard.

Some prints may still use the "Universal" leader, that has a moving "clock" with countdown numbers every 24 frames, specified in standard SMPTE 55. The Universal leader was originally developed for prints used on television. It is often seen on representations of "film" being projected.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-01-2001 05:29 PM

It's interesting to see, though, that the clock-sweep leader is almost never seen on feature prints (with rare exceptions), while the footage count is almost never seen on trailers (when they even contain complete countdowns) or 16mm prints (even those not made as TV prints; there's a certain logic here, though, since the footage count would be wrong for 16mm, anyway).

Personally, I don't really have a preference for one type of leader over another, but I would like to see more standardization with respect to cue marks; labs vary between leaving about 20-24 frames between the second cue and the black tail leader (which, sadly, isn't always black). This is annoying. Longer tails (which are as close to opaque as possible) and longer head leaders would be preferable, though...some labs leave only a couple of feet of tail leader with some prints.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02-01-2001 06:32 PM

At one time, it used to be that motor cues were located at frames 195, 196, 197, and 198, and the changeover cues were located at frames 19, 20, 21, and 22. (11 feet 4 frames difference). Why they changed, I don't know. But for those operators who have the pleasure and luxury of running manual with 2000 foot reels, (I wish I was one of them) they should check to make sure the blackout is attached to the very last frame of the reel. It is highly unlikely a professional projectionist will miss either the motor or changeover cues, but it does happen.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-01-2001 10:37 PM

If you run Coke trailers, don't forget the "Shadow Puppets" ones where the film breaks and the people make hand puppets on the screen and tell lame jokes.

First time I saw it I actuall shouted out, "What the hell..."

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 02-02-2001 06:42 AM

Standard SMPTE 301 specifies cues as follows:

"6.1 Picture: It is recommended that picture action start and finish on fades whenever possible. Otherwise, significant audio should be kept at least 80 frames from the start and finish of the picture."

"6.2 Motor cue: The motor cue shall consist of black circles or clear circles, printed from a negative which had four consecutive frames marked...Following the four frames containing the motor cue, there shall be 172 frames to the beginning of the changeover cue."

"6.3 Changeover cue: The changeover cue shall consist of four frames containing circles of the same dimensions and positions on the frame as those in the motor cue. Following the four frames of the changeover cue, there shall be 18 frames to the beginning of the runout section of the trailer."

"7.2 Runout section: The runout section of the trailer shall consist of 88 frames, the first 87 of which are to be black with framelines..."

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02-02-2001 12:01 PM

John, the funny thing with specifications is that when the average person reads them, they know less about them than when they started. Using the last frame as a reference, it comes out as you have stated. I could not remember the run-out footage, but like you said, it is 87 frames. (3.625 feet).

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Matthew Bailey
Master Film Handler

Posts: 461
From: Port Arthur,TX
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 02-05-2001 12:19 PM

I have seen the intentional frame meltdown
& soundtrack warbling in 'THE MUPPET MOVIE'
Since the chef was the projectionist,
I wonder what he did to cause the film
to melt&blister on the screen.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 02-05-2001 02:53 PM

We showed 'The Smallest Show on Earth' yesterday, in which Peter Sellers plays a dipsomaniac projectionist at a run-down old fleapit. When he eventually drinks himself into a coma, the manager has to try and run the show, with predictably catastrophic results. These included the predictable cock-ups like lacing up out of rack and missing changeovers, but the whole scene eventually culminated with the picture being shown in reverse, but with the soundtrack running in the right direction (i.e. you could hear dialogue)! I'd like to know how on earth anyone could achieve that (even on a Cinemeccanica)...

BTW, does SMPTE standard 301 include sync marks 3 frames after each number? Admittedly these are redundant if you're using a penthouse reader, but not providing tham takes a safeguard away from everyone else. I find that an increasing number of leaders don't include them, the worst offender being prints struck by Eclair labs in Paris, whose leaders never seem to have sync marks.

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