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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
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Author
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Topic: Natural gas question - Knoxville teen burned
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John Schulien
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 206
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-20-2001 02:13 PM
Gads!My first thought was that yes, smoking will kill you, but usually not that fast. I certainly hope they survive, although those kinds of injuries will most certainly be with them for the rest of their lives. How sad. Here's a good website about the history of odorized natural gas ... http://www.oxychem.com/products/odorants/newlondon.html I searched the United States code (federal law) but couldn't find any law specifically requiring odorants, although there is a large body of federal regulation that may well require it.
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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 07-20-2001 02:35 PM
Evans:Even if gas has an odor, an individual might not notice it, say they have bad sinuses, etc, etc. Now, propane does have an odor. In any case, when it comes to fuels and gases, one common way to check for leaks is with a NONOIL/NONPETROLEUM based soap/water solution--just like detecting a leak in a tire or innertube. And when doing this type of work, remove anything on your person that could cause a spark--and double check your footwear! Also remove anything from the immediate area that could cause a spark! And contact the approperiate agencies (fire department, gas-electric company, etc, etc,) if the situation is serious enough. Also remember that when it comes to liquid fuels such as gasolene, it is not the liquid that is flamable, but the vapors emmitted from the liquid that are flamable. Hence propane and natural gasses that are in a vapor form.
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Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-20-2001 08:56 PM
Sad about those two teenagers.Always remember if you do smell gas NEVER operate a light switch, the resultant spark can create an explosion. Years ago, in Ottawa, a caretaker of a theatre smelt gas one morning, and (we deduce) turned on the light switch to the basement of the theatre to investigate the cause. It was the last thing he ever did. The building disappeared. A set of theatre exit doors, still coupled together, buried themselves into a jewelery store across the road.
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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted 07-20-2001 11:03 PM
I worked in the HVAC industry a few years ago, and worked on many gas furnaces and appliances.LP (propane) is heavier than air. Therefore, if you have a leak situation, you will have to get close to the ground and sniff around to find it. If you can smell it, get out of the area, fast. Turn off the gas at the tank. I was working on a furnace in a crawl-space, dodging spiders, and critters galore. This furnace ran on LP gas. The customer had complained that the gas tank had emptied over the summer. The furnace was the only gas-fired item in the house. After checking all the gas lines for leaks using the previously mentioned soap, and seeing that the tank had just been filled, I went under the house and crawled to the furnace. I could smell a slight gas odor. I found a bad gas valve on the furnace. Normally, when the pilot light goes out, the gas valve will shut down after about 30 seconds. It will not re-open until the pilot is re-lit, and the thermocouple heats up enough to satisfy the gas valve safety control. Well, this time, the pilot, though out, was still getting gas and it was not being burned, and was all over the floor of the crawl space. The safety control in the gas valve was faulty. I replaced the valve. This was a good hour job. I didn't notice any gas smell anymore. So, I whipped out my trusty Bic lighter and lit the pilot. I saw a blue flame whoosh away from me and down the grade under the house to the foundation. It happened so fast that I didn't have time to react. As quickly as it happened, it was gone. It never occurred to me at that time that the LP was heavier than air and had pooled in the lower part of the crawlspace. Natural gas is lighter than air, and has the rotton egg odor, too. I think that it would take alot of gas build-up to ignite when a match is lit. The fumes have to be very obvious for the concentration to be heavy enough to ignite. Thats why the smell is there. Still, get out of the area. Dont turn on anything that could cause a spark. In my case, I once had to get out of a house and shut off the gas at the meter. I called the fire department from my service truck. They told me that the house would have blown up if the gas had lingered much longer. There was a crack in a fitting on a pipe in the house that caused the problem. Believe me when I say that I have a healthy respect for any gas, oil, gasoline, kerosene, etc. all the time. I saw the piece on the Knoxville neighborhood on the news. The flames were really bellowing out of the hole in the ground. It must have ruptured the line in the ground. I hope those kids are going to be OK.
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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted 08-03-2001 05:11 AM
It's a sad commentary. This story was featured in the paper, and mentioned on all of the local TV stations when it happened. It was the lead story on several. Now Evans reports the death of the burn victim. Where's all this coverage now? I read the paper daily, and do the news on TV nightly. Not a word has been mentioned. Life can be short. Gas can be tricky, but I am in no way afraid of it. As long as your safety controls are functioning, you have nothing to worry about. The same goes for electric. We had a house in 1966 that had the Total Electric medallion on the front door. The first month that we ran the heat in the fall, the bill was $350! I'd rather have gas heat... then oil (another messy heat,) then wood, then electric.
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Tao Yue
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 209
From: Princeton, NJ
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-03-2001 09:19 AM
An all-eletric household is safer than one that burns natural gas. However, electric ranges are less efficient than gas stoves (not to mention the other problems). First, there are the thermodynamic losses: heating up water to make steam, spinning up a turbine, generating electricity from it, transmitting the electricity, stepping down the voltage to household 110, and finally reaching the stove.There are also practical considerations -- for example, lighting a gas stove generates even heat almost immediately. Starting an electric burner takes a while to heat up to maximum temperature. A pot with an uneven surface works just as well on a gas range, but loses contact area (and hence heating) on an electric burner. If we were like France, and got 80% of our electricity from nuclear power, then perhaps the inconveniences might be worth it to reduce emissions from burning fossil fuels. However, coal-generated electricity is probably much dirtier overall than just burning gas directly in your home. And using natural-gas generated electricity in place of a natural gas stove is just silly. There are no easy answers in the field of energy. At least, not until fusion becomes viable. Twenty more years, the scientists say. And as some people have pointed out, it was twenty years way back in the 1950s, too. ------------------ Tao Yue MIT '04: Course VI-2, Electrical Engineering and Computer Science Projectionist, MIT Lecture Series Committee
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