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Topic: TV Station Videotape Formats

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 08-20-2001 02:32 AM

I know this question has probably been answered here before, but I am way too lazy to search, so it'll just have to be answered again.

What videotape formats can TV stations accept/play/review?

I assume they can at least watch VHS, correct? How about SVHS? Betacam SP (that's a given)? Regular Beta? Super Beta? That Fisher Price thing that recorded black and white video onto a standard audio cassette tape (Pixelvision?)?

In other words, if I had a videotape of the LAPD trying to scare away a bee that had landed on Rodney King with their batons, which format should I send it in on?

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Steven Gorsky
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 146
From: Frederick, MD, USA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 08-20-2001 02:52 AM

Just about every station should be able to accept most of those, except the Fisher Price thing

, and possibly not regular or super Beta . Some may even accept Digital Betacam, MII, and they probably still have a 3/4" machine around.

Steven Gorsky

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Steve Scott
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1300
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 08-20-2001 11:20 AM

Some TV stations & organizations use the digital S format, wich records a digital signal onto 64 or 104 minute tapes that are just bigger than VHS tapes.
I've used the format & it looks really good on a properly calibrated monitor, and it's cheaper than Betacam.

Right now, JVC is the main distributor of the format.

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Tom Sauter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 163
From: Buffalo, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 08-20-2001 02:34 PM

DVC-Pro has been gaining acceptance for HDTV production, though you're more likely to encounter D3 (DVC-Pro in the camera, D3 in the studio). In the analog world Beta SP is still widely accepted, you'll see Hi8 once in a while, 3/4" U-matic is now a dead format though everyone still has their decks. Not long ago I received a promo on 1-inch "C", which is a reel to reel format that preceded Beta SP. I didn't feel like hauling myself across town to get it transferred by the one geek in town who has a working deck in his basement.

I still have to maintain Betamax I, II, and III for our archives here. You can still buy blanks at Radio Shack! Just don't expect your local TV station to have it.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-20-2001 05:03 PM

Video tape formats really vary from TV station to TV station. I remember years ago when I worked in that field Beta and BetacamSP were the formats of choice. Of course 3/4 inch U-Matic was the older standard and there are still small market TV stations all over the place using it (as well as old vacuum-tube driven field video cameras with separate external tape decks). The TV station where I worked in Georgia had so much old equipment that they maintained the Smithsonian Institution paid the station for one of their really old black and white TV cameras that still worked. Some stations use VHS and S-VHS (a lot of Fox stations where using S-VHS systems in the early 1990s).

Digital Betacam was just starting to take hold when I worked at WALB-TV. Formats like D-1, D-2 and D-5 were strictly high end and even remain pretty much that way today. DVC-Pro is a popular digital video format in that the cameras and tape systems are fairly affordable (in professional equipment terms). Lots of small market TV stations have moved to that. Larger TV stations have been using formats like Digital Betacam. And then the HDVS format is trying to take hold in top 20 TV station markets (the really big metro areas). I don't know what the status is behind D-VHS in professional circles, but it is currently in the drivers seat for replacing VHS tape and providing HD quality digital video recording/playback. I would think most TV stations would have to have some capability for handling MiniDV tapes from consumer digital camcorders, as well as the MiniDVs produced by much better semi-pro cameras like Canon's 3CCD GL-1 and XL-1 models.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 08-20-2001 05:18 PM

The XL1 kicks ass. I want 5 more. Why? I dunno. And I want the 3D lens as well, though I'm not sure how it works (I think it uses LCD shutter glasses... that sucks).

I guess my real question is: do TV stations that have news programs on them have consumer equipment to play submissions sent to them by average people? A lot of time you will see camcorder footage on the news. I assume they have the means to convert it themselves... or do they make you bring in your camera and play it to their tape format while they record? I have heard that barely any stations have MiniDV.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-20-2001 05:20 PM

I wouldn't sujest sending any 2"quad tape either thow there are several working machines still in Toronto

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-20-2001 06:32 PM

Man,
I used to maintain RCA TR-22's which were converted from Low Band machines to High Band, and then color, and Ampex AVR-whatevers back in the old TV days. The Ampexe's were the best by far. Its really amazing that the TR-22's ever worked right as they were all germanium transistor based, no I.C.'s at all! VERY temperamental machines and the head wheels were VERY expensive to have rebuilt. When the station moved we abandoned them where they were sitting. There will always be a Quad machine or two in any major post facility worth its weight to transfer over the years of video tape that was accumulated. Sometimes the tapes WILL ONLY play back on the machine they were recorded on too. Then, its too bad for the tape! The only other thing that can be tried is to fly the tape around to all known machines and see if it will play back or not. This was done with some of the old something or other Playhouse tapes form the late 50's and early 60's several years back.
Mark @ GTS

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-20-2001 08:57 PM

I would think that Beta SP would be the "safest" format for TV broadcast, since the picture quality is entirely decent (for video) and since everyone from low-end stations to the major networks will have the capability to play it back. One point that I did come across at one time is that broadcasters want drop-frame timecode so that they can easily determine the actual running time of a piece. Non-drop-frame timecode is preferred if the material is to be edited, however. This, of course, applies only to NTSC, where we have to deal with the drop-frame/non-drop-frame mess.

As of a few years ago, one-inch tape was still fairly common at TV stations (at least as much as 3/4") and it looks slightly better than Beta SP. Maybe this has changed recently.

I haven't been to a broadcast facility in a while, but it's probably fair to assume that every station will have the capability to play back VHS tape and tweak the signal enough to make it broadcast-able. About seven years ago, some VHS stuff that I've shot (high-school football highlights...nothing exciting) was broadcast on a major-market station, so at least that particular broadcaster had VHS capability. And, yes, it looked like crap (actually, I'm really very good at shooting film or videotape of football games...the problem was with the tape format, not my photographic skills).

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-20-2001 09:03 PM

Oh--one more thing: Beta SP tapes come in two sizes. The "small" cassette shell is the type used in cameras and will play back in all machines. The maximum running time is something like 30 minutes. The "large" cassette shell will only work in the studio machines (not portables) and has a maximum running time of something like 125 minutes. This might become important if the station in question only has a portable deck to spare.

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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 08-20-2001 09:45 PM

I would imagine that any news orginazitation would be able to to dubdown from vhs and SVHS.

------------------
--Sean McKinnon
Manager
Loews Cineplex Entertainment
Liberty Tree Mall 20
Danvers, Mass
www.enjoytheshow.com

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 08-21-2001 12:19 AM

All the stations in town still have 1" decks, personally I like them. those machines are the closest think in my mind to film as far as video is concerned. WDAY still gets all their commercials on 1" and then dumps them onto MII, which goes into the automation. a computer controls a robotic arm which place the tapes in 1 of 3 MII decks, and places the spots on the air, with perfect timing. Production uses Beta SP AFAIK, and they do have DVC Pro capability.

When those 1" ampex machines go in the dump, guess whose going in after them

Josh

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Phil Connolly
Film Handler

Posts: 80
From: Derby, England
Registered: May 2000

posted 08-21-2001 03:57 AM

Many DVC-Pro/DVCam Decks should be able to play back Mini-DV.

Of you could submit your footage with, timecode in vision, on vhs. Then they could get back to you to tell you which bits they need and on what format. It could even be a AVI on a CD to go straight onto their NLE.

The timecode in vision is also a good way to make sure they pay for the footage, don't give them a clean copy till you get your money, thats if your charging.

The XL-1 is easily good enough for broadcast, I've seen lot's of stuff broacast in the UK shot on this camera. Still I hope the XL-2 can do true 16:9.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 08-21-2001 04:55 PM

I'm not sure if the DV format would support the extra resolution needed by true 16:9. Can it?

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Steve Scott
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1300
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 08-22-2001 01:33 AM

I've read articles and promos that say it can, or will become the standard in around five years. Certain DV camera heads can do 480i, but 1080i requires post-processing.
I know that Francis Ford Coppola's new movie academy is using mini DV on Avid digital editing consoles. I'd imagine that the Avid system should break out of the movie industry before long.

Or has it already?

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