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Topic: Do Sub-titles Make A Difference?

Kristin Wahlund
Film Handler

Posts: 92
From: Eagan, MN
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 10-13-2001 11:58 PM

With the new movie Iron Monkey out, I have recieved a lot of complaints on movies with sub-titles. People wanting refunds because it was advertized and it gave no indication of having subtitles. I also recieved many irate customers on the phone asking if it had sub-titles. They then gave me a very strong opinion of those movies. So I was wondering, does it make a difference for you to see that movie and/or what is your opinion of those foriegn flicks?

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Kristin Wahlund
Regal Cinemas
Eagan 16, MN

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 10-14-2001 12:18 AM

People get irate over the dumbest things these days. I can see why someone would be anoyed, though, because it is anoying traying to read the subtitles and concentrate on the movie at the same time. Sometimes they go by pretty fast. Is the whole film sub-titled? My theatre didn't get it.

Being a projectionist, what pisses me off is when foreign films, especially when they have subtitles, that are filmed in the 1.66:1 aspect ratio are shown in the standard Flat (1.85:1) ratio. Too often the subtitles get cut off, and if you raise the framing enough, the heads get cut off. That possibly could be what they are complaining about, if they know it has been a problem in the past. My last theatre was an art house, so we would occationaly get 1.66 prints.

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Phil Connolly
Film Handler

Posts: 80
From: Derby, England
Registered: May 2000

posted 10-14-2001 03:04 AM

Still, 9 times out 10 subtitles are far better than having the sound track dubbed into English. I'd always much rarther hear the original performance from the actors even if I can't speak the language.

Of course there are many cinema goers in the English speaking world who get angry with foriegn filmmakers for making films in their own language.

On side note the UK trailers for 'Amilie' and 'Crouching tiger hidden dragon' don't have any dialogue - obviously a bit of a scam to try and prevent frightening off cinema goers who can't read.

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James R. Hammonds, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 931
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-14-2001 04:26 AM

movies should never be dubbed.

ever.

unless its a kids cartoon.
if people cant learn to doel with subtitles, then they shouldnt be trying to watch the film.

i dont find subtitles annoying at all unless they are white and presented over a light scene which makes them hard to read.

dubbing should be illegal.

ok, maybe im going too far with that one, but people need to realize that americans are not the only ones who make films and english is not the only language spoken in this world.

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Don Sneed
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Texas City, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 10-14-2001 04:58 AM

Every movie that is not Japanese is sub-title over here in Japan, what is funny to me is most of the people do not understand english, but loves American movies, all is sub-title....my future wife speaks & understand a little english, but loves going to the theatre with me to see a movie, although she has to read & still see the action, But thank goodness for sub-titles over here & American movies in english, it is what keeps us in business here & myself sane, since there is no english TV in most of the Hotels I stay at, When I service a few theatres in Houston that showed Chinese movies I would watch the feature before I could do my thing in the booth, I found it annoying to read & watch what was going on, on the screen...but that was with the old slope theatres, with stadium seating now, it may be a little easier to read & watch...Sometimes Sub-titles is a good thing !!

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German Marin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 227
From: Verbania (VB), Italy
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 10-14-2001 05:00 AM

I'm from a spanish country and all the movies has sub-titles. The problem with sub-titles is the meaning i.e. in english someone said a joke but in spanish has not sense, i think when people traslate it to sub-titles they do the best is possible. Another problem is while customers is reading sub-titles they can't see the movie 'cause they prefer follows the history. There's one benefit: the movie never is out frame (when it's flat), just put the sub-titles rising botton of screen

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Glenda Cockrum
Film Handler

Posts: 58
From: Monaca, PA, USA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 10-14-2001 10:01 AM

I don't have any problem with customers with sub-titles, but I do make it clear on my announcement tape that the movie has sub-titles, and post a note on the box office window stating the movie has sub-titles, and on the poster case! If they haven't picked up on it by the time they get inside....!
By the way, by the end of our run of "Life is Beautiful" my (then 9 years old) daughter was speaking some Italian, and actually seems to have retained some words, because she could see and hear at the same time. An Italian customer said to me that her ( my daughter) accent was very good! This was one movie that I felt was important for my children ( ages now 11-18 )to see. Maybe I should start a thread with movies that you feel are important enough in content for children/teens to be encouraged to see?

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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 10-14-2001 10:49 AM

As a rule, I usually like sub-titles (as opposed to dubbing.) However, in the case of IRON MONKEY, the film definitely looked post-dubbed anyway and some of the more intense action scenes had the unfortunate effect of losing the thread of scene while one looked below to read what was being said.

That said, no one in the audience seemed to groan or get up to complain (although this was a TINY audience). THere was no mention at this theatre that it was sub-titled). Another theatre in town that showed Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon verbally told all ticket-buyers that the film was in Mandarin Chinese with English sub-titles and definitely did turn away some people from that.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 10-14-2001 12:39 PM

Ok, when it comes to action films like Iron Monkey I would rather the film be dubbed....however,I have no problems with a film like Das Boot being subtitled...the action is more involved with the surroundings....Another thing to remember and I hate to say it but some people just can not read well enough to keep up with the subtitles.

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Charles Everett
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: New Jersey
Registered: May 2001

posted 10-14-2001 01:05 PM

Subtitles don't make any difference if you're in an arthouse or upmarket venue. The audience comes to expect them and pays attention to what's on screen.

It's a different story in mainstream theaters. Take away Crouching Tiger or Life Is Beautiful -- both of which were "Oscar Bait" -- and subtitled product doesn't do well. On the other hand Life Is Beautiful flopped when it was re-released in a dubbed version.

Ken L: The current arthouse hit Together (from Sweden) was shot in 1.66 with the action framed to fit 1.85. The producers and director must have done that with an eye to international sales. Where I saw Together -- at a stadium theater in upstate New York -- the subtitles were properly positioned for R1, drifted downward for R2 through R5, and got chopped off at the start of R6. A woman in the audience had to go out to tell the staff to adjust the framing so the subtitles would be visible.

Phil C: The trailer for Iron Monkey has no dialogue either.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 10-14-2001 02:17 PM

What do you mean it was shot in 1:66 and framed to fit 1:85?

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Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-14-2001 02:34 PM

We run a five screen art house. Yes we almost always have a subtitled film on screen. This week we have three films with subtitles, Bread & Tulips which is in Italian, Together which is in Swedish, and Come Undone which is in French. What suprises me is that several of our regular customers still complain when a film is subtitled. I just tell them that it's our bread and butter.

Rialto Cinemas Lakeside; "Bringing the best films in the world to Sonoma County." And yes some of the best films in the world aren't in English!

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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 10-14-2001 03:27 PM

I've never had a problem with subtitles. I saw the original Diabolique in French and subtitles, and it scared me to death. La Cage Aux Folles is also better in French than dubbed in English.

When working in TV, I ran a load of Mexican horror movies that had the worst dubbing that K. Gordon Murray could produce. Some of the make-up in these films was outstanding, but the dialogue ruined everything.

Then there are those awful "Godzilla" movie dubs.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 10-14-2001 06:40 PM

I prefer to watch movies in English if they were made in English. But I usually find the dialog much more fitting and well acted in their native laguage if I am watching a foreign laguage flick. I always switch the language to Japanese when I watch an anime on DVD. As an example, I did not care for the English dub of Mononoke. The voices of Billy Bob and especially Claire Danes were horribly bad. That Billy Cruddup guy also provided weak dialog skills. God the movie is so much better in Japanese. Even if the Japanese actors are acting poorly, you'd probably never know it since you can't understand them

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-14-2001 08:10 PM

It's actually very common (at least in the US) for trailers for foreign films to not show any dialgoue scenes. Personally, I think it's kind of sneaky to do this, since it's obviously intended as a way to avoid discouraging people from seeing the film simply because they don't like subtitles.

Personally, I have a strong preference for subtitles over mediocre dubbing. There are some very nicely dubbed films, but they are in the minority. I've never really understood the objection to subtitles, as they don't bother me a bit.

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