Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Audio CD's and CR-d's

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Topic: Audio CD's and CR-d's

Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001

posted 12-01-2001 06:42 AM

I know that some audio cd players refuse to play cd-rw discs.
But is their any difference between a normal audio cd and a audio cd-r.

i.e Will an audio cd-r (not a re writtable just a write once cd r) play in ANY audio cd player.

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-01-2001 09:55 AM

In my experience, it all depends on the burning software or the burner itself. For the most part, probably all modern CD players will play CD-Rs. The same goes for DVD players with DVD-Rs and properly burned DVD+RWs.

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Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-01-2001 01:14 PM

Some older cd players won't play cdr's, but i'm sure almost all new cd players will. Here's an interesting story though: A friend of mine has a Sony DVD player, not sure about the model, but it's maybe a year old. It plays cds and vcds with no problem, so he thought. He acquired a burned (cdr) vcd on ebay, but it absolutely would not play on his player. He went back to the seller, who told him that Sony DVD players actually block most burned vcds, but that the vcd encoded differently would play. Sure enough, the guy burned a new disc and it played fine. So i think that Adam is correct. There are a lot of weird things being built in to the software of dvd players to help prevent piracy. I'm sure there are more to come. I think the next time I buy a dvd player, I'm going to get one of the doctored "region free mulitistandard" players available overseas. (I know they're available in the UK, Michael.)

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001

posted 12-01-2001 01:17 PM

This is interesting because it seems that sony micro systems (not ever the top price models) will play cd-r's. (well thats according to their web site). Because i was looking at buying one. (the cheapest)

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Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-01-2001 02:20 PM

Michael, if playing audio from a cdr through a cd player or audio system is your concern, I doubt you'll run into any problems. If you were looking to buy the stereo from a store, bring a cdr in and try it out to make sure it works. Even Sony's CD-R drives include software for burning audio cds and making "music comilation cds."

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-01-2001 02:54 PM

It is usually a question of burning speed.
Most older CD players can't read above 2X and there is insufficient burn depth in high speed burns for it to read
The same thing occurs on older computors that have older 2x or 4x drives they can't read reliably disks burned at 8x and up

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-01-2001 03:50 PM

Gordon brings up another valid point. I never burn discs above 8x (usually just 2x or 4x for audio; 8x for data).

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 12-01-2001 06:35 PM

Whether a CD player can read a CD-R or CD-RW is all a question of reflectability. CD-Rs and especially CD-RWs are much less reflective than normal CDs. I've burned CD-RW's at up to 10x and they play just fine in my Sony CD/MD deck. One really weird thing is that I have a cheap Samsung (yeah!!!) DVD player that claims to read VCDs. I burned a VCD of some of the stuff I have done on videotape to CDR and it kept saying "No disc". I tried the same on a CD-RW and it DID read it, but half assedly. Perhaps it is programmed NOT to read CD-Rs specifiaclly, I dunno. But it is weird.

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Steven Gorsky
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 146
From: Frederick, MD, USA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 12-01-2001 09:05 PM

The dyes used in CD-R discs are "invisible" to the laser wavelength used for reading DVDs. Exceptions to this are dual optical pickup players. For more info see here for a list of players, and if they can play CD-R, CD-RW, etc. Please note that something about this page can cause Navigator to choke on it. Also check-out this faq.

On audio players and CD-Rs it is not just reflectability, but the combination of the cd burner used, the particular dye used on the CD-R, software, and of coarse the player.

All of this came up a month or so ago on another board I visit.

Steven Gorsky

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 12-01-2001 09:16 PM

For what it's worth, no one has mentioned this all important tidbit...try "closing session" on your burns. I have found that every cd player more than about 5 years old can not read a CDR or CDRW if the disc is not closed (prevents any further data from being written to the disc). As cheap as discs are nowadays, there is no reason not to close it.

On the other hand, my DVD player (and other friend's DVD players) cannot read a "closed CDR or CDRW" disc, but they can read an "open" one just fine.

In my experience the speed of the burn makes zero difference. Only the open/closed session does. Maybe I'm full of it (admitting I do not know technically why this is the case), but I've found these results to be 100% consistent in my travels.

Regarding VCDs, I've never burned a VCD disc and do not even own one to play.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 12-01-2001 10:46 PM

VCD's are awesome. They are digital. They are better than film.

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Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-02-2001 12:07 PM

VCDs never really caught on here. They are still very common in parts of Asia, both bootleg and legitimate releases.

As far as the whole dlp server thing goes, I donn't know why they are so concerned with servers and delivery of the digital films. I agrre with Dr. Redifer, VCDs are far superior to film and should be used exclusively for digital presentaion in theaters.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 12-03-2001 05:11 AM

The other thing to watch out for are discs burnt using hi-fi audio CD recorders (as distinct from drives in computers). They work by burning the audio tracks first, then when recording is complete the disc is 'finalised', a process which consists of writing the index track and closing the disc. Problem is (so I've been told) that sometimes the information they write in the index is not accurate enough to tell some CD players where each track starts, with the result that older audio CD players can have trouble playing discs recorded using these things.

A friend of my mother's recently gave her a CD of some 78s which had been recorded using an audio CD recorder, which her machine wouldn't play. She posted the disc to me and I copied it by dragging and dropping all the tracks into a CD image file (using Nero v5 for PC) and then burning a new one in 'disc at once' mode. The copy played without any problem.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 12-03-2001 12:30 PM

"Disc at Once" is required for burning the 99 minute CD-Rs. Problem is that Nero wouldn't let me change the gap between tracks to be less than two seconds no matter what I did. I can change the gap time if I do not burn in disc at once mode, but then I can't accurately burn a 99 minute CD. I like the gap to be one second, not two.

Am I a moron for not knowing the proper way to change the pregaps in disc at once mode?

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 12-05-2001 05:11 AM

I haven't had Nero very long and so haven't had a chance to play with it in that much detail yet. I know that you can reduce the gap between tracks to zero using Easy CD Creator 4, but I suspect that it will not support 99-minute discs (you can't even get them in the shops here). I had to do this when re-recording some classical 78s which had a single, long piece (i.e. longer than 4 minutes) split across multiple sides of the records. I captured each side as a separate .WAV file, then edited them to reduce the gap at the start and end of each file to nothing and then burnt each track using ECDC, setting the pause between each to zero. It sounded absolutely continuous, no break between tracks at all, though it would probably have been easier to join the files up using a wave editor and record each piece as a single track. I just didn't think of doing it that way at the time.

Problem is ECDC is so crap for doing anything else...

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